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Discussion Topic:
1940 Standard Spring Covers
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deuce_roadster |
07-13-2012 @ 7:15 PM
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Member
Posts: 284
Joined: Oct 2009
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Sounds like the chief judge at that meet thinks he is God. No excuse for being rude, I would be upset as you are. That was handled very poorly. The way the whole judging thing is designed with so many subjective items involved it will ALWAYS create controversies. Keep in mind there are 2 kinds of problems in this world, Life and Death situations, and everything else. This is very annoying to you I am sure but let it go and move on. It isn't worth the stress it could cause you. My 2 cents....
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40 Coupe |
07-15-2012 @ 5:25 AM
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Senior
Posts: 1674
Joined: Oct 2009
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Regarding points: It is the responsibility of the car owner to prove, to the deputy or the chief, points in dispute, with FORD documentation. I have suggested here, that any accessory should NOT be added to the car, that is pointed judged, unless the owner is assured the accessory is fully correct and he has the proper documentation to prove it. In defense of judges, deputy, and chief. The show field is a VERY difficult time to sit down and read over pages of documentation, and to determine the correctness of accessories. Oftentimes their nerves are on edge and they are trying to do the RIGHT thing to correct issues, in short time periods. If you have had a difficult time with one or more of the accessories on your car, on the show field, I would suggest you enlighten everyone in the club by writing an informative factual technical article (forget any and all personal conflicts) for the V8 Times including copies of your Ford documents, or sources of same. The V8 Times needs more of these type articles. Ask the people you trust to proof read the article and make suggestions, before submitting.
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deuce_roadster |
07-15-2012 @ 8:11 AM
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Member
Posts: 284
Joined: Oct 2009
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40Coupe-Are some options accepted without documentation, or is it just the unusual ones? I doubt every 40 on the concourse with a heater or radio has the original bill of sale stating it was installed by the dealer. Just wondering. I've never judged 40s.
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ford38v8 |
07-15-2012 @ 12:40 PM
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Senior
Posts: 2758
Joined: Oct 2009
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40 Coupe has made an excellent point here. The judges are human, and it's a long day. Any question on authenticity of something should be ironed out in advance of showtime. Often, a meeting of the minds prior to the Concourse can be beneficial to all concerned. Not to say that a car should be pre-judged, I'm only suggesting that a particular area of concern can be addressed. As for documentation of every accessory, that's not such a bad idea for any accessory, but not usually needed. The case of the spring covers is unusual, and Ford documentation on the judging field would have settled the issue there and then with no ruffled feathers, and would have been a positive learning experience for all.
Alan
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40 Coupe |
07-16-2012 @ 10:18 AM
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Senior
Posts: 1674
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The type of documentation necessary is technical in nature and not a business document. Lets say points were removed for an "incorrect" installation of a radio. The vehicles bill of sale would not prove the correctness of the installation. Ford did publish diagrams for the correct radio installation in the Branch Service Letters. Judges do not ask for bills of sale, the owner can install as many accessories as he wants on his car. The judges will look at the accessories and make a decision weather the accessory is correct for the vehicles year and the installation is correct. As an owner remember the vehicles accessories can add hundreds of parts to your car increasing the chance any of these added parts are incorrect or installed improperly. This increases the chance of a point deduction.
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deuce_roadster |
07-16-2012 @ 4:57 PM
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Member
Posts: 284
Joined: Oct 2009
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I agree if you are going for points the best strategy is to have zero accessories. They can only subtract points, they cannot (and should not) add. Most people though like them and will take the risk for the ones important to them.
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kubes40 |
07-17-2012 @ 2:01 PM
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Senior
Posts: 3394
Joined: Oct 2009
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Guys, maybe we should start a separate thread but I have to wonder why we, as a Club, do not offer some sort of "training" before sending judges out on a field? Don't we owe the owners of these cars that much? How can we value the Dearborn Award highly if the judging is so very arbitrary? The AACA requires training of their judges and they do NOT hold the concourse cars to the same degree of authenticity that or Club does.
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alanwoodieman |
07-19-2012 @ 6:11 PM
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Senior
Posts: 868
Joined: Oct 2009
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Kube, mark clubs always tend to hold to a more specific set of judging standards. I have been a V8 club judge, 55-57 chev judge and an AACA judge with a lot of schools attended, meets judged, been chief judge at a national AACA meet, so I do have a little bit of experience. AACA must contend with all marks of auto's, trucks, motorcycles and there is no way for the club to be "picky" on the most part, althought some judges get a little carried away. I like this approach but also like the V8 club's approach but it needs to be tempered a little to help the new guys, judgeing classes would help but just being allowed to shadow a judging team would also help future judges and restoreres alike. Think about it and let's get a few ideas out there!
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TomO |
07-20-2012 @ 7:46 AM
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Senior
Posts: 7250
Joined: Oct 2009
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Training judges has been raised almost every year since I joined the club over 35 years ago. Nobody has come up with a practical way to do this. The host club cannot supply all of the judges, so they request volunteers. Volunteers give up one full day at the meet to judge the cars, if training was required, do we ask them to give up another day at the meet? Can the Club create a training video for each class that can be sent to each volunteer? How do you make sure that every judge remembers each special nut and bolt and every accessory that was available. How do you make sure that every judge knows when a particular feature became available in model year? How do you train a judge to cover the Mercury classes? They cover many years and there are significant differences between some years. The same can be said for Lincoln. The current practice can be improved on, but we are never going to have perfect cars or perfect judges. This discussion started because an owner wanted a particular accessory installed on his car and did not have a branch letter stating that this was an option. The judges were correct in making the deduction, because standard cars did not come with spring covers and he could not prove that it was an authorized dealer installed option. I would not accept an E-Mail as proof that a non-standard accessory was available when a copy of the branch letter should be available. The Deputy Judge and the Chief Judge should have backed up the judges and let the points deduction stand, because the owner did not have adequate proof. Owners should realize that the people judging their cars are fellow Club members that have volunteered to give up a day to examine their car so they can get a trophy. Judges should remember that they are dealing with fellow Club members that have slaved over their beauty trying to restore it to the way it was delivered. Everybody should have shown more courtesy. This is supposed to be a hobby that we do for fun. Tom
This message was edited by TomO on 7-20-12 @ 8:01 AM
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