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EFV-8 Club Forum / General Ford Discussion / Defective Fram C4 oil filter ???

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Posted By Discussion Topic: Defective Fram C4 oil filter ??? -- page: 1 2 3 4     Grant 06-25-2010 @ 3:19 PM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 537 Joined: Oct 2009 On June 22nd, bo8109b started a discussion topic called "Spark Plugs". The same day, Stroker responded with comments which included: "Given the degradation of quality, I wouldn't recommend a Champion spark plug today, even for my lawn mower. The same goes for Fram filters, which used to be the best for Fords." About a year ago, I changed the oil on an 8BA V8 engine and used a Fram C4 filter. Immediately upon firing the engine it had a low frequency, quite audible, knocking noise which had never been there before. It sounded something like a bad rod bearing. Is it possible that the Fram C4 filter was defective and did not allow oil to pass through it, thereby causing lubricant starvation ? If not, what else might be wrong with using a Fram C4 filter ? What oil filters are you fellows using on the 1949 to 1953 V8 engines ? What would you recommend rather than the Fram C4 ? Any ideas about what might be causing this previously non-existent engine noise, which wasn't there before the oil change ? trjford8 06-25-2010 @ 6:26 PM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 4220 Joined: Oct 2009 I've seen several posts that recommend the Wix filters. JebNY 06-25-2010 @ 6:51 PM reply profile send p.m. Member Posts: 44 Joined: Nov 2009 Far from an expert on this but I believe all these drop in filters (assuming you haven't modified the engine oil feeds) are partial filters, they are just another feed in the system and filter what oil gets piped to them. They can be completely blocked and would not starve the engine for oil. I suppose if it fell a part and spit pieces of paper into the oil pan it would plug up the oil pump pretty quick. Jim... 1950 F1 Stake ford38v8 06-25-2010 @ 10:31 PM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 2765 Joined: Oct 2009 Grant, I agree with Jeb. If the oil filter were clogged for some reason, the effect would actually be more oil to your engine rather than less, as the filter runs off a tee, taking only what the engine does not. Your knock may have been due to an engine flush (when you changed your oil) that effectively allowed your oil pump to lose its prime. This can and does happen sometimes even in a modern engine. If you don't get immediate oil pressure when starting your engine, the usual cure is to simply turn off the engine for a moment, and then restart. Always watch your oil pressure when you start up, particularly after an oil change. Alan Grant 06-26-2010 @ 7:30 AM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 537 Joined: Oct 2009 Thanks for your responses. The engine and its oil filter set-up are stock Ford, unaltered from new. The old filter was removed intact during the oil change. Could an old or damaged clutch disc suddenly start making a noise that sounds like a rod bearing knock ? I've heard of Wix oil filters, but haven't seen one for years. Does anyone know the Wix part number for '49 to '53 Ford V8 engines ? supereal 06-26-2010 @ 11:18 AM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 6819 Joined: Oct 2009 If your filter is of the vertical type, prefill the canister before starting the engine. As noted above, there is no oil pressure at start up after draining until the filter is full. If the knock goes away soon after starting, it is common. At our shop, we haven't had any problems with Fram or any other name brand. If we do, it isn't unusual to find that the old gasket wasn't removed before a new filter was installed, or the filter was cross threaded when installed. Be sure you have the correct filter, as the "drainback" valve in the unit must match the engine. Beware of counterfeit filters. There are increasing numbers out there. When in doubt, buy from a place such as NAPA. JebNY 06-26-2010 @ 3:27 PM reply profile send p.m. Member Posts: 44 Joined: Nov 2009 WIX 51006 is the replacement for Fram C4. That is what I use in my 50 F1. I don't think these drop in filters have a drain back valve. The way they are feed they stay full of oil in operation. Filling the canister with fresh oil before putting the top on is definitely a good idea. Jim... 1950 F1 Stake Stroker 06-26-2010 @ 4:50 PM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 1460 Joined: Oct 2009 Most of the problems I have had with Fram oil filters have been on newer full-flow systems. My complaints are based upon 2 observations. 1) The method of retaining the built-in gasket is "iffy-enough" to allow the later spin-on filters to be removed sans gasket. 2) the internals contain cardboard pieces that are supposed to function as anti-drainback, and relief valves. I like the spin-on Wix filters, so I have assumed that everything that Fram makes is absolute Wal-Mart-price-point CRAP. As for the Champion Plugs, I used to swear by them, but have since switched to NKG's on anything I care about. I agree that you could put just about anything in a partial flow OEM Ford filter housing, including rolls of toilet paper, as if it plugs up, it will simply bypass. The real point however, is to put something "good" in that housing, so you get some benefit from it. Grant 06-27-2010 @ 7:53 AM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 537 Joined: Oct 2009 Thanks again for all your input, gentlemen. As ford38V8 commented, I did shut off and re-start the engine. The knocking sound was still there. With hand-operation of the throttle, the frequency of the knock increased along with engine rpms. It certainly sounded like low oil pressure to me. Supereal recommends prefilling the oil filter canister with oil. That was not done in this case. In future, I will definitely do that. The vehicle is low mileage, but has been in storage since 1958 (still has '58 plates). The problem oil change was number four after getting the car running (total operating time approximately thirty minutes). The engine had been running beautifully on 15W40. The knocking sound commenced when I switched to Phillips 20W50. This is an aviation oil which is supposed to have much higher ZDDP content because aircraft are not subject to EPA regulations which govern the operation of motor vehicles. Using this airplane 20W50 seemed like a good idea at the time. I have recently spoken to an engineer at Conoco Phillips in Texas. He didn't seem to know much about early Ford engines and basically said "no comment" . The situation has irritated me so much that the engine is now out and on the garage floor, partially disassembled. The rod bearings showed very little wear and appear to be undamaged. They are original STD FoMoCo. New STD Clevite rod bearings have been installed. The main bearings are also STD FoMoCo, in excellent condition. Rather than disturb the upper halves and possibly cause damage, the main caps were re-installed with the original bearings in place (mains torqued to 100; rods torqued to 50). Further observations are: 1. very little sludge in the bottom of the oil pan 2. oil pickup screen 6623 in very nice condition with almost no grunge in it. 3. screen cover and inlet tube assembly 6615 were completely clear with no blockage of any kind. 4. oil pump seems to be fine with 6608 and 6610 gears dripping with oil and no signs of damage. I will be removing the 6672 plug next to see if the 6654 spring is damaged or broken. While the oil pump is apart, do you think that the 6654 spring should be replaced? If so, where do I get one that is genuine N.O.S. FoMoCo ? What else can I be checking while the engine is on the floor ? Cylinder walls look good, and compression is strong. I do not want to re-install this engine until the source of the knocking problem has been identified and corrected. Perhaps the oil filter cansister not being pre-filled with oil, and having a dry Fram C4 filter at start-up, was what I did wrong ??? With respect to the clutch, are the Denn** Carpent** replacement discs high quality, trustworthy units ? It seems to me that the original clutch disc, which does show some wear, might as well be changed before engine re-installation. Do you fellows agree with that ? supereal 06-27-2010 @ 10:23 AM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 6819 Joined: Oct 2009 An engine knock that doesn't go away when oil pressure goes up may originate from a source other than the main or rod bearings. It is often piston "slap" when the pistons were not carefully matched to the bore. Now that you have the engine apart, have both the pistons and cylinder walls measured, and inspect the wrist pins for fit. Check all bearings, rods and mains, with PlastiGage to be sure all are correct. We grind cranks in our shop, and it is not unusual to find a journal that was turned undersize for some reason, and then a stock insert put in, instead of an oversize. As for the oil pump, if you have any reason to doubt yours, replace it. New 80# pumps are about $160. Check your old pump to be sure that the pickup tube is secure. We braze the pickup, just to be sure. Unless your clutch disk shows signs of excess wear or burning, it should be OK. Many replacements are not of good quality.

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