Post to the EFV-8 Forum
Post Classified Ads
Shop the Online Store

User Login

Not Registered Yet? Click Here to Sign Up!

Early Ford V-8 Club Forum

FORUM RULES: Users agree to these Rules when using Forum.

The site administrator reserves the right to change the terms and conditions of the user agreement without prior notice to the user. It is the responsibility of the user to regularly review the terms of this agreement.

The user agrees to the following terms:

All information that you provide to us for your membership is correct.
You will not use your membership to spam, harrass, or exploit other members in any way.
Vulgar, Abusive, Racist and Sexist Language will not be tolerated.
Commercial-type sales postings will not be allowed.
No mass posting or flooding of the boards is allowed.
No Advertising of parts or cars; no Ebay or business/commercial ads (please use the "Classified" for ads Wanted or For Sale).
VIEWING MULTIPLE TOPICS ON SCREEN: You can choose to see more than 10 Topics at a time ... Log In and choose "Preferences" from the top bar on the Forum page. Scroll down and Change the "Default Topics Returned" parameter to 25 or 50, and save the changes. Since this setting is stored in your browser 'cookies' (if enabled), it seems to use that stored value even if you are not logged in. So, if you use a PC that you haven't logged into the forum from, the setting still seem to remain at the default.
EXTERNAL PHOTO LINKS ON FORUM: You can still use external photo links in your posts on the new forum. They follow the rules of any link in that they have to have the URL link qualified down to the full image file name (example: .jpg). The links will open in a new browser window, the same as an uploaded image attached to a post. Since an image attachment to any post does not display inline with the post, the results are the same. You can use multiple external links within a post. This link is from photos on a site from Don Clink's 'Deuce@75' albums:

http://donclink.com/deuce_75_1/images/dscn2950.jpg

Using links from photo sites such as Photobucket can help in "size" issue with uploaded attachment files. For best viewing in web browsers, photos should be around the 800x600 pixel range, and probably not more than 1024x768. Most cameras today store HUGE jpg image files, as the default settings are in the 7, 8, 10, and 12Mb image sizes. The image files that are then attached are very large, and the browser can't display the full image size without using the scroll bars. Use the re-sizing functions of your photo editing software to reduce the image to 800x600, which reduces the file sixe and the image load time in the browser. Don uses Google's free Picassa3 software, which is an excellent photo management product. All of the photo albums of the Deuce, Grand National, and Auburn that are links on the NORG site were built using Picassa's web creation functions. And it's free? (THANKS to Don Clink for the info!)
HOW DO I SHOW MY EMAIL ADDRESS ALONG WITH MY USERNAME? You can LogIn on the Forum, and select PREFERENCES. On this page Members can add optional information such as their City,State, Country; Occupation; Hobbies: list a Homepage; list AOL Instant Messanger Handle; Signature; "Make Email Address viewable to others;" and even change the number of Default Topics shown on a page. WHEN others click on your profile, they will see this information.

EFV-8 Club Forum / General Ford Discussion / banjo rear end

Reply to Discussion | New Discussion

<< previous || next >>

Posted By

Discussion Topic: banjo rear end

seems39

10-25-2013 @ 9:44 PM

reply profile send p.m.

Member
Posts: 8
Joined: Aug 2011

What grease seal is used on the axle and at the front of the drive shaft behind the "U" joint?
Mike
mreadys@tds.net

deuce_roadster

10-26-2013 @ 9:28 AM

reply profile send p.m.

Member
Posts: 284
Joined: Oct 2009

Ford part# 4245

seems39

10-28-2013 @ 8:45 PM

reply profile send p.m.

Member
Posts: 8
Joined: Aug 2011

Thanks for the seal number, Ford Part # 4245.
The seals I have been getting a National number are too small for the axle shaft. They are designed for 1.092 dia and the axles measure 1.115-1.123.
I will try to find one of these to see how it fits the drive shaft and axles. The rear end I am working on is a 1937 - 1948 style.
Thanks Mike

seems39

10-28-2013 @ 8:59 PM

reply profile send p.m.

Member
Posts: 8
Joined: Aug 2011

I just checked this seal (Ford # 4245) design size. It is for a shaft diameter of 1.092. Ford axles and drive shaft diameters are from 1.113 thru 1.123 this seal is way too small for a shaft of these sizes.
Got any ideas? I have installed these seals on axles and the lips bend over backwards and some times the spring pops out. Try it by sliding a seal on a axle by hand and see what you discover------.
Mike

40 Coupe

10-29-2013 @ 7:22 AM

reply profile send p.m.

Senior
Posts: 1675
Joined: Oct 2009

32 to 48 Ford Rear inner axle housing B-4245: National 450044 (this seal may be used for the torque tube below)

32 to 48 Ford Torque tube seal (front) B-4245: National 450044, LYO 28004 (see previous listing above) as measured: 1.087 shaft , 1.834 OD x 0.433 W from V8 Times( CR 10926 1.094 Shaft x 1.828 Housing Dia. X 0.438 W)
National 450044: 1.093 shaft, 1.828 bore, 1.834 OD, 0.437 W
CR 11170 or Victor 49029

I have used the seal sold by Mac's auto parts (LYO) it fits and appears OK but a bit on the cheep side, they work OK.

seems39

10-29-2013 @ 8:24 AM

reply profile send p.m.

Member
Posts: 8
Joined: Aug 2011

Thanks 40 Coupe for this info.
I have already gotten and tried the National 450044 and Victor 49029. With a design size for each of 1.092 these seals are .023 - .031 too small. These modern seal design tolerance size variations are just .004 plus or minus (from the books at the bearing & seal warehouse). I am going to the bearing & seal warehouse to look up the other seals you mentioned (LYO 28004 & CR 10926) to see what their shaft size design is for. The counter man there is a car nut & is helping me by using his seal books to find a seal that is designed for the shaft sizes or vintage Fords have.

deuce_roadster

10-29-2013 @ 8:45 AM

reply profile send p.m.

Member
Posts: 284
Joined: Oct 2009

What you describe seems odd. I have installed many of these with no problems EVER. The Ford Chassis book shows all 3 of those seals as the same part #. Are you installing them dry? That is the only way I could imagine seeing what you are experiencing unless the shaft is pitted and rough. Try a little grease or gear oil on the shaft and seal. For the seal to work the hole HAS to be smaller then the shaft.

seems39

10-29-2013 @ 10:21 AM

reply profile send p.m.

Member
Posts: 8
Joined: Aug 2011

When you install the axle housings you can not see what is going on with the seals as they are inside the housing. I wanted to know just how well they fitted the shafts I had. So I taped up the key groove, put some lube on the shaft and slid the seal on. It was a distorted mess. I have rebuild many transmissions, rear ends, engines in 50 years of working on cars, race cars and heavy equipment. I saw the seal not fitting correctly. So I took all the seals and axles to the bearing & seal supplier where I live Longview, Washington. The counter man confirmed my thoughts as these are too Small and he supplied me the engineering data for each seal of 1.092 plus or minus .004 for these seals. So I am sending out my research & findings to see what outer folks have discovered & if they have found a solution for the under sized seals being sold to us. I am not going to install a seal that is not the correct shaft size. There is a answer there some place.
I had a conversation with one of the early founders of drag racing by the name of Art Christman. Art said to make a banjo rear end live drag racing he would machine the axles down to 1.110 diameter and polish the surface like a rifle barrel. This got rid of the pock marks from the forging process. These pock marks were stress risers & caused the axles to brake there. By removing all of these pock marks the axles now worked like a torsion bar. Art said these axles are made out of metal which is like grade 8 material for bolts. I figured if this worked under heavy drag racing use, machining down the outer end of the axle to fit the 1.092 design diameter would work as I would not be drag racing.
So far after many months of talking to many folks this is what I have come up with.
There are lots of smart folks out there & my hope is to discover a way to properly assemble these rear ends.
Mike

supereal

10-29-2013 @ 3:11 PM

reply profile send p.m.

Senior
Posts: 6819
Joined: Oct 2009

I've seen oversize axle shafts. "Back in the day" there were lots of axles sold by various parts places. It does make sense to have the axles turned down to size, not only to assure the seals fit, but to give the seals a smooth surface to ride on. A good machine shop can do it in a very short time. Few people go to the trouble to replace the axle seals in the housings, so they don't see if they are correct.

<< previous || next >>

NOTE: YOU MUST BE A REGISTERED USER AND BE LOGGED IN TO POST (and reply to) messages in this forum. If you are a first time user, please click the CREATE A NEW ACCOUNT in the masthead above to register and Log In. After that, all you do is LOG IN to enjoy using this site.

DISCLAIMER: The V-8 Club does no independent testing of any of the opinions, thoughts or suggestions presented in the website on the Forum, in the Tech Tips section, or any section. A reader should consider the website to be a forum wherein differing solutions to a particular set of circumstances may be discussed. Ultimately, the selection of an item for an individual's vehicle must be based upon the independent study of the vehicle owner in consultation with people in the hobby and restoration experts.

Early Ford V-8 Club Forum

Merchandise Questions

Membership Questions