Early Ford V-8 Club Forum

EFV-8 Club Forum / General Ford Discussion / 40 Ford clutch shudder

Reply to Discussion | New Discussion << previous || next >>

Posted By Discussion Topic: 40 Ford clutch shudder -- page: 1 2 3 4     Stroker 08-09-2013 @ 8:07 AM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 1460 Joined: Oct 2009 Deleted double post. This message was edited by Stroker on 8-9-13 @ 9:06 AM Stroker 08-09-2013 @ 8:06 AM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 1460 Joined: Oct 2009 TomO: I believe you are correct. So many factors were eliminated in 1949, it's difficult to pin down a single source. Dan TomO 08-09-2013 @ 7:37 AM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 7250 Joined: Oct 2009 Dan, I believe that the transverse spring makes the Ford more likely to get clutch chatter. As you said many other makes had torque tube drive without clutch chatter, but had separate rear springs. As Mike said, if everything is right and you learn the Ford method of clutch engagement, you will seldom encounter the clutch chatter. Tom Stroker 08-08-2013 @ 2:52 PM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 1460 Joined: Oct 2009 I have often pondered why some early Fords have clutch shudder that seems to defy solutions, and others do not. I have come to the conclusion that it is, in many cases a matter of cyclic feedback. When the Ford driveline was first developed, the input came from a planetary transmission. The switch to the 3-Speed in 1928 first utilized a multiple-disc try clutch, and then finally (also in 1928) the more familiar single disc/pressure plate design. The driveline itself, while evolving in housing design, and beefier internals such as the straddle-mount pinion, is essentially the same as a Model T, as Supereal has previously point out. What didn't change, is the fact that it contains long torsion bars in the form of the drive shaft and axle shafts, all contained in a rigid housing. These springy "innards" dampen some impulses, but also can reflect stored-up energy back to the clutch. Combine his with the variables associated with motor mount compliance, and we get an oscillation that is hard to control. Ford tried to mitigate it with the hollow tubular driveshafts in some years, and the anti-chatter rods. What finally put the problem to rest, I believe was switching to the industry standard open driveline in 1949. Of course many other cars had torque tube drive shafts during the 30's and 40's, but I think the Ford problem could have been solved by simply making the axle shafts beefier. supereal 08-08-2013 @ 12:31 PM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 6819 Joined: Oct 2009 All clutch disks are "spring loaded", unless you have a Model A, when disks just had spokes. I've been dealing with clutch shudder for over sixty years, and still haven't solved the problem. I don't feel bad, as Ford couldn't either. 42wagon 08-08-2013 @ 3:45 AM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 584 Joined: Oct 2009 Guys As I read through the responses I see way too much emphasis on the clutch while the real problem is the way the drive train is mounted. Yes, you should have a new spring loaded clutch plate with material approximating what Ford installed in the first place. But what you really need are good motor and transmission mounts properly tightened. Recently I installed new mounts for the engine and transmission and the shudder I had been experiencing is gone. At least for now. Given enough driving time I believe it will be back to some extent. It is a problem that Ford knew about and couldn't solve even with the anti-chatter rods. I think today we are used to modern slick systems and are surprised by what the earlier car owners had to put up with. How many of us are driving modern cars that don't have automatic transmissions? You are driving a vintage vehicle, enjoy it with all its faults. 1883warren 08-07-2013 @ 9:00 PM reply profile send p.m. Member Posts: 25 Joined: Dec 2009 Absolutely right, you need a clutch disc with the internal 'springs' that allow a smooth and easy contact. As to those 'anti-chatter' rods ... I tossed mine a long time ago, these only transfer engine vibration and noise directly to the frame, and into your ears. If you clutch is the right kind, good straight pressure plate... toss the rods in the junk. Both my '34 and '35 cars were smooth as silk, and my present '36 is the same. The spring-loaded clutch plate is the ultimate answer. Warren shogun1940 08-05-2013 @ 9:46 AM reply profile send p.m. Member Posts: 464 Joined: Feb 2010 has anyone checked out the thrust bearing, if the crank moves back and forth it could cause a chatter,, just a thought Old Henry 08-03-2013 @ 4:41 PM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 738 Joined: Apr 2010 Well, I got my bag of Fuller's earth in today and applied some to the clutch disk and plate. Didn't help any. But, with the floor out and the inspection plate off I could watch the clutch while the "shudder/chatter" was going on. I couldn't tell by watching it what the problem was. I'm going to put a video on YouTube to see what you think. Old Henry (The older I get, the better old looks.) This message was edited by Old Henry on 8-3-13 @ 5:20 PM supereal 08-03-2013 @ 9:51 AM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 6819 Joined: Oct 2009 Thanks for the kind words, Mike. You are my "go to" guy on many subjects, as you know. I lost count of how many clutches I've put in over the years, and most of them had some shudder. I must be missing something. We have a customer's "barn find" '39 standard in our shop, and the engine is coming out next week. I'll pay considerable attention to the clutch. We always resurface the flywheel and replace the pilot bearing. When I rebuilt my '47, I had all of that, plus new transmission ball bearings, yet it still has a bit of shudder. Years ago, we used to loosen the clutch housing bolts a bit, then run the engine while we worked the clutch, then retightened the bolts. It usually reduced the problem. In some cases, shimming the joint between the block and the transmission helped, as well, as any misalignment between the block and the transmission results in an off center situation regarding the face of the flywheel and the disk, producing shaking. This message was edited by supereal on 8-3-13 @ 2:48 PM

<< previous || next >>

PAGE: 1 2 3 4

NOTE: YOU MUST BE A REGISTERED USER AND BE LOGGED IN TO POST (and reply to) messages in this forum. If you are a first time user, please click the CREATE A NEW ACCOUNT in the masthead above to register and Log In. After that, all you do is LOG IN to enjoy using this site.

DISCLAIMER: The V-8 Club does no independent testing of any of the opinions, thoughts or suggestions presented in the website on the Forum, in the Tech Tips section, or any section. A reader should consider the website to be a forum wherein differing solutions to a particular set of circumstances may be discussed. Ultimately, the selection of an item for an individual's vehicle must be based upon the independent study of the vehicle owner in consultation with people in the hobby and restoration experts.

EFV-8 Club Forum Home | Back to Home Page | Contact the Webmaster

Copyright © 2009 - EFV-8.org
Powered by < CF FORUM > v.2.1