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EFV-8 Club Forum / General Ford Discussion / What makes us smarter today about cooling

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Posted By Discussion Topic: What makes us smarter today about cooling -- page: 1 2     MOXIE 06-16-2011 @ 4:42 PM reply profile send p.m. New Member Posts: 102 Joined: Oct 2009 What makes us smarter today then 30 years ago? What I’m referring to is engine cooling. I’m reading an article in a 30-year-old V8 time’s magazine. It’s called Paul’s Garage and in it he states that in order for the flathead to run cooler you need to keep the water in the radiator as long as possible to remove the heat. He suggested putting in thermostats to slow the water down or if none available, to put in washers with a 5/8” hole. The washer with the small hole would slow the water and keep it in the radiator longer. I do not think anybody agrees to that theory today, especially the folks who make a good living by rebuilding or selling new high flow pumps. Thirty years ago there were more flatheads on the road then now. Looks like they would have more smarts about keeping an engine cool then our shade tree experts today. 40guy 06-16-2011 @ 7:43 PM reply profile send p.m. Member Posts: 270 Joined: Oct 2009 There was also a time when medical science thought cutting people and letting them bleed was good for some ailments; then science learned better. With that said; when it comes to vehicles, there is certainly more technology to possibly achieve better results in some areas of our old Fords. More studies have been made, parts have been improved,etc. Thats my "pros" side. On the "con" side,I don't agree with every new idea that comes along. Everyone must make decisions based on the best information we have at the time. If something worked 75 years ago and still works it was obviously a good idea regardless of what anyone says. I'm just saying, sometimes "improvements" can make something worse. The bottom line is we have to make decisions based on the information we have, as well as our experience as to what has worked for us individually. Thats my slant on it. trjford8 06-16-2011 @ 7:45 PM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 4232 Joined: Oct 2009 Moxie, 30 years ago guys cooled or tried to cool a flathead based on "theories" expounded by old time mechanics. As you know they sometimes worked and sometimes didn't work. There was a lot of variables including how clean the block and radiator were at the time they applied the theory. Later it was determined that moving more water and moving it faster would aid in cooling.I suspect that this method came into being with late model motors that were designed to run hot due to smog regulations. Somehow they needed to keep them cool enough to make the motor function properly. It was determined that they need to move more water. Technology is always evolving , just like going from the Model A to the flathead V-8, the engineers are always looking for new ways to make things better. The high volume pumps have made life a lot better for many flathead fans. The rebuilt coils and the adapters to run a modern coil have also made life better for flathead fans. At some point we will see a 97 carbruetor that is actually a fuel injection unit. We will get better mileage, have more power and it will still look stock. It all comes down to "American Ingenuity". supereal 06-16-2011 @ 8:38 PM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 6819 Joined: Oct 2009 Well said, Tom. Many of the old urban myths pop up now and then, and need to be refuted. I suspect that they will always be with us, propagated by some who never hold a wrench. ford38v8 06-16-2011 @ 11:58 PM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 2774 Joined: Oct 2009 Bob, I suspect that you may be referring to those venerable old time V8ers who can proudly lift their hoods in order to display the neat row of wooden clothespins on the fuel lines. How dare you question what works for them? Alan This message was edited by ford38v8 on 6-16-11 @ 11:59 PM alanwoodieman 06-17-2011 @ 5:11 AM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 868 Joined: Oct 2009 Well Moxie to answer your question. I live in the hot humid south and have owned/worked on/driven flathead Fords for almost 40 years. They got hot no matter what I did,except for one, (get to that some other time) and then along came the high volumn water pumps the lack of thermostats, water wetter, etc that is current knowledge and lo and behold the same engine in the same car with the same radiator didn't over heat ran a lot cooler, even in traffic--I am a convert. What do you "drive" and where do you live? MOXIE 06-17-2011 @ 6:42 AM reply profile send p.m. New Member Posts: 102 Joined: Oct 2009 I live in KY and have a 35 coupe. It does not run hot but I have all the improvements on it that people recommended. I do all my motor work but only as a hobby because I enjoy it. I’m not saying not to use the high flow pumps or the other stuff, I was just asking what changed people’s thinking from no flow to flow. Of course the “Paul’s Garage” column may have been just his opinion and no one else. He did state at the first of his article that no cooling system would work unless you have a good radiator and the system is clean. I think that would even go for today. Supereal, if somebody had of driven there 1935 car in your shop in 1980 and it was running hot and the system was clean and radiator in good condition, how would you of fixed it then. supereal 06-17-2011 @ 7:03 AM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 6819 Joined: Oct 2009 I would start with a compression test to see if there was a head gasket leak. If the test was inconclusive, I would put our combustion analyzer in the neck of the radiator to confirm the condition. If OK, I'd check the tension and condition of the belts. I'd ask the owner if any recent work took place on any part of the vehicle, including the brakes. We have seen brake buildup due to faulty master cylinder adjustment that caused the brakes to be gradually applied, causing excess load. I could go on, but the idea is to diagnose to pinpoint the cause. The old suggestion to slow down coolant flow to "allow the radiator to work" is just baloney. Slowing down the flow simply means the coolant arrives much hotter, taxing the finite ability of the system to transfer the heat to the air, a "zero sum" situation. I've had some real "head scratchers" in my time. A couple of weeks ago, we had an Audi in the shop with a heating problem that no one could find. We discovered that the plastic water pump impeller was slipping on it's shaft, something that had eluded the others who looked at it. I don't think we are smarter that those of years gone by. We just have had many more years experience than early mechanics to fall back on. TomO 06-20-2011 @ 3:16 PM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 7263 Joined: Oct 2009 A physics professor wrote an informative article on cooling for Skinned Knuckles a few years ago. It was so technical that most people reading it would fall asleep after the first paragraph. The article gave the mathematical formulas to support the theory of faster moving coolant would keep the engine cooler. I always thought that the slowing down theory came from the old circle track racers. They broke every other fin off of the water pumps to get the edge in horsepower. We even tried running with no impeller on the water pumps, unfortunately that was only good in the 25 lap races. Tom Stroker 06-20-2011 @ 3:34 PM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 1460 Joined: Oct 2009 TomO: A variation of the "broken-fin, missing impeller" school of non-thought, was to drill holes in the impellers so they would cavitate. I've been guilty of that, and installing washers in place of the thermostats. Moving coolant faster makes more sense to me today, than allowing it to "dwell" in the radiator, as no matter how big and efficient your radiator might be, the flathead block has enough hot-pockets to benefit from rapid flow.

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