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EFV-8 Club Forum / General Ford Discussion / 99A conv?

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Posted By Discussion Topic: 99A conv? -- page: 1 2     Lincoln 05-04-2010 @ 1:58 PM reply profile send p.m. Member Posts: 56 Joined: Oct 2009 95 HP equipped Fords were special only for bonafide Law Enforcement sales per Ford directives. At least that is what a Green Island (NY) Branch letter said to one of its dealers. This is mentioned in the July-Aug 2009 "V-8 TIMES article "Non-Standard Engines For Prewar Fords". This dealer, from a small town in Vermont, submitted a request to Ford for a 95 HP Ford car for a local Deputy Sheriff and the Sheriff had signed it. This 1940 Ford was delivered a month or so later. Still later, the Ford Dealer had an occasion to mention that the car's serial number was 231768. No doubt the complete number was 99A-231768 and, to be correct, this number "should have been" stamped on the frame and shown on the Bill of Sale for licensing purposes. Perhaps this number will show up in Ford's Engine Build Ledger for 1940 - if some lucky person has access to this ledger. In the Sept-Oct 2009 V-8 TIMES Mike Kubarth mentioned that his 1940 Ford also had a Mercury engine, and he had all of the "Pedigreed papers" to prove that it came from the factory that way. Mike also pointed out that the car was not intended for Law-enforcement duty, and suggested that maybe the dealer "pulled some strings" with Ford to get this car. Maybe so. But another possible source for 95 HP Ford cars were the 95 HP Ford demonstrators produced in 1940. Those cars were eventually discounted and sold to the public. If Mike reads this column, perhaps he will share with us whether his car carries the "99A" prefix. 37RAGTOPMAN 05-04-2010 @ 11:51 AM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 1967 Joined: Oct 2009 The FORD CHASSIS and the MERCURY are very different,the FORD is shorter,for just one thing, why would they change the serial number for just installing a MERCURY ENGINE ? I think police cars probably were equipped with the engine with more horsepower, and maybe some other applications as well, special orders, I would assume that if you went to the FORD DEALER and requested a MERCURY engine, they would have installed it for you, they wanted a sale,,, just my 3 cents worth 37RAGTOPMAN 42wagon 05-04-2010 @ 8:32 AM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 586 Joined: Oct 2009 Tom I think you and I are in agreement. If the car came from a Ford assembly plant with a Ford engine the serial number on the frame will start 18-. If it came from the assembly plant with a Mercury engine the serial number on the frame will start 99-. Now if the engine were changed at any time after assembly the serial number on the frame will show the engine it was assembled with. Unless there is some documentation with the car that Mercury engine might have been installed by the dealer before delivery, or when the original engine needed to be replaced, or last year during a restoration project. So we are back to the original question, what is stamped on the frame? Ted TomO 05-04-2010 @ 6:49 AM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 7258 Joined: Oct 2009 Ted, if the engine was replaced with another engine and the transmission was not replaced, then the serial number on both the frame and the transmission would be the same and indicate the engine that the car was shipped from the factory with. I do not know of any external differences between the 239 cu in and the 221 cu in engines in 1941 and 1942 other than the color of the engine. In 1939 and 1940 the only external difference was a stamped 99T on the machined surface where the intake sits. Tom 42wagon 05-04-2010 @ 6:38 AM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 586 Joined: Oct 2009 Tom If you go to vanpeltsales.com you will see that Ford engines were listed as 18- and Mercury engines were 99-. However in 40 a Ford was 85 HP and a Mercury was 90 HP. In 41 Ford jumped to 90 HP and Mercury to 95 HP. In 42 Ford stayed at 90 HP while Mercury jumped to 100 HP. Finally in 46 both Ford and Mercury were 100 HP. In 46 the 18- was dropped and both engines became 99-. So back to your question. In my opinion if a Mercury engine was installed in a Ford at an assembly plant it should have been an engine/transmission assembly. If that were the case the engine/transmission assembly would have the 99- serial number and that is what should go on the frame. Now if the Mercury engine was special ordered to replace a Ford engine by a dealer the car would have come with an 18- number on the frame. As a case in point, I have a 42 and it has the 18- serial number. However at some point the engine was replaced with a 100 HP engine. Since the transmission remained the same and has the 18- serial number we will never know when the engine was replaced. Does all this make sense? Ted 40guy 05-03-2010 @ 7:47 PM reply profile send p.m. Member Posts: 270 Joined: Oct 2009 So that I totally understand this: If a 1940 Ford was ordered with a 239 C.I.[95hp] there should be a 99 prefix on the frame. If the 18 prefix is there it was 221C.I.[85hp] regardless of what anyone may claim. Do I have this straight now? TomO 05-03-2010 @ 8:16 AM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 7258 Joined: Oct 2009 I guess that I added to the confusion by using the HP ratings of the engine to designate the prefix. Ford used the prefix to designate the cu in rating of the engine. 18 = 221 cu in, 99 = 239 cu in, 54 = 136 cu in, during the 1932-1948 years. All 46-48 V-8 cars carry the 99 prefix, because the only V-8 available was the 239 cu in. Alan, if we only used the engine numbers to determine production, the production numbers of Ford and Mercury cars would be skewed. The production numbers for cars and trucks were published by the Ford Motor Co. and broken down by body styles. Otherwise we would not be able to account for the extra engines that were made for replacements and industrial use. I hope that this clears up the cloud that I created by using the HP numbers instead of the cu in rating as Ford did. Ted, the Ford cars and Mercury cars were assembled on the same line at most of the manufacturing plants during the 39-48 time frame. The serial number was stamped on the frame when the engine and transmission assembly was installed. Tom 42wagon 05-03-2010 @ 3:24 AM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 586 Joined: Oct 2009 Alan, Tom, etal We all know (or think we do) the Ford engine numbers were sequential starting with 18-1 in 1932 despite the fact that the horsepower was upgraded over the years. The 18- standing only for V8. So were 95hp engines stamped 99- or 18-? So when in the process would a 95hp engine replace an 85 hp one in a Ford? Were Mercuries assembled on the same line along with Fords? If not would the swap be made at the dealer? What is on the frame of this car? Keep in mind that the yearly classification number (01A, 21A etc) never equated to the engine number so why the did the Mercury number? Ted ford38v8 05-02-2010 @ 6:47 PM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 2770 Joined: Oct 2009 40guy, You are correct, and so is Tom. The serial number is referred to as an engine number, but in fact is an engine/transmission assembly number. This serial number phenomenon brings up another anomaly: Serial numbers have always been used to determine quantities of production. So, if a 99A serial number was used in a Ford rather than in a Mercury, then that skews both those production figures. Tom, am I thinking this thing in the right direction? Alan 40guy 05-02-2010 @ 6:23 PM reply profile send p.m. Member Posts: 270 Joined: Oct 2009 It has always been my understanding that the prefixed number was only on the transmission and not the engine.

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