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EFV-8 Club Forum / General Ford Discussion / When is an Early Ford V8 not acceptable?

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Posted By Discussion Topic: When is an Early Ford V8 not acceptable? -- page: 1 2     FrankM-RG5 10-22-2017 @ 2:26 PM reply profile send p.m. New Member Posts: 135 Joined: Oct 2009 Thanks! ford38v8 10-22-2017 @ 9:43 AM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 2758 Joined: Oct 2009 Just a clarification on Frank's post above: The Club's Directors have little to do with such matters as fuel pumps on the Concourse. They are an elected body of Representatives who may or may not have detailed knowledge of how a Ford was built or how it should be presented on the Concourse. It is the Judging Standards Committee that is empowered to make such decisions, free of politics. They are concerned with authenticity, and deviations from that course are studied and debated long and hard before their decisions are submitted for approval by the Board of Directors. Alan FrankM-RG5 10-22-2017 @ 8:59 AM reply profile send p.m. New Member Posts: 135 Joined: Oct 2009 From what I have read there is no perfect answer. We are trying to figure out what we can live with and maybe some need to figure out how to live with decisions the directors make. That being said, our old Fords have two histories. The first was when the cars were built and functioned as transportation. The second was when they were all used up and many loved the styles of the old Fords enough to say this is the car I want to customize. We have few members who can remember seeing these old Fords on the showroom floor but there are many who remember seeing kids at school turning them into hotrods. I think all of our members appreciate seeing a nicely restored V8 but remember the expanse of the hot rod market has made parts available that otherwise would not be. Brookville is an example. The hot rod guys have made these bodies profitable for these companies to make. Carpenter did not make the 40 coupe bodies to satisfy the restorers but they may help someone restoring a 40 Ford. As Tom said above, our club has a great membership that has a lot of fun at these national meets. This is where concourse cars get judged. If you remove all the people who brought touring vehicles then there would be no meet. I like that the club encourages members to drive their concourse vehicles, so as much as I do not feel an electric pump is needed, some swear by them so the club decided to accommodate them. It's not a perfect decision but they decided the pros outweighed the cons. If we criticize and downplay their decisions instead of promoting the reasons for them then we are destroying our club from the inside. As president of our RG I need to embrace decisions I did not vote for otherwise I am not serving my local club. While many of us are trying to preserve originality the directors are trying to preserve the club. If they fail to do that then restore it as nice as you want. No one will be there to see it. woodiewagon46 10-14-2017 @ 3:36 PM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 698 Joined: Nov 2012 I'm sure some Concourse cars are driven to national events, but at everyone I have ever attended was a sea of car trailers. I call them Dracula or Wolfman cars, they only come out in the light of day on judging day. The point I am trying to make is this. In the Sept/Oct. issue of the V-8 Times are the results of the 2017 Membership Survey, sent out by the V-8 Club. The question of "Which Age Group Describes You"? In the age group of 16-25, 0%, age group 26-35, 0% and the age group 46-55, only 7.2%. In the age group Over 65 the number is 68.8% BUT as Mike points the number of members that stated an actual age the average number is 72 years old! We need a way to attract younger members somehow. I don't have an answer, I wish I did. It's a problem we all need to address. Every year when I get the end of year report from the Model A Club it lists the numbers of Chapters that have ceased to exist and it's down right depressing. ford38v8 10-14-2017 @ 11:13 AM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 2758 Joined: Oct 2009 Tom, As far as I know, there is only one modification that has been identified by the JSC to draw no point deduction, that being the addition of seat belts, as it was considered a safety item not to be discouraged. Your point made regarding a deduction for an incorrect fuel pump but not for an electric pump is well taken, and IMHO, that principle should be applied to any comparable situation encountered on the Concourse. But this thread was not intended to discuss point deductions, but rather, to discuss where to draw the line as to what is or is not to be allowed on the field at a meet. I was at a meet once where a customized vintage Brand X was allowed in the Display area, and although there were some that would have denied entry, the general feeling among the attendees was that as long as it remained in Display, no harm no foul. I think there is a need for inclusion in this day and age more than in the past, as we all have motor oil in our blood, and this club, more so than any other club, values its friendships as much as the cars we all treasure. Alan TomO 10-14-2017 @ 9:53 AM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 7250 Joined: Oct 2009 I agree with Alan except on allowing modifications to pass without a point deduction. I was glad when the Touring Class was announced. My 40 Merc had a 49 truck engine in it and I could now drive it to meets and not have to park with the general public. Touring A allowed more modifications and allowed more members to drive their cars to the meet. The Display Class should continue. Like Engine, I don't bother to look at the Display Class and don't vote for Touring A cars, but these cars should be allowed to be displayed and their owners welcomed. They may have a nicely restored vehicle in their garage or starting a restoration. I still believe that if the car is not like it left the factory, there should be point deductions for items that are not correct. And that includes electric fuel pumps and hydraulic brakes. How can you pass an electric fuel pump one car and then deduct points for an incorrect mechanical pump on another car? They arre both incorrect. I made decisions when I restored my 40 Merc for the second time to not change some things that were incorrect. The judges took points off for these items as they should have. The car was restored enough to get a Dearborn and is now an Emeritus car. If it was judged as a 3rd place car, I would still put it on the Concourse, because I enjoy driving it to National Meets and realize that I made the choices that resulted in point deductions. Every car on the Concourse does not need to be a Dearborn winner. The owner of a 3rd place car is just as proud of his vehicle and enjoys it as much and maybe more than the trailer queen owner. Woodiewagon46, there are many cars driven to National Meets that are in the Concourse division. Not all of them have electric fuel pumps. My Merc was driven on local tours and to the the National Meets where it received the Dearborn Awards and I continue to drive it on local tours. I do not have an electric fuel pump and the best thing I did for solving "vapor lock" problems was eliminate the one that was on the car. It was causing most of my problems. Tom trjford8 10-13-2017 @ 6:59 PM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 4214 Joined: Oct 2009 I believe there is room for everybody in this club. As long as they pay their dues and support the original intent of the by laws. If this club operated on strictly stock Ford V-8s in this club there would not be enough people (workers) to put on meets or pay dues to pay for the expenses of the V-8 Times magazine. As someone who has been involved in putting on national meets it takes a lot of workers to make those events happen. From personal experience those workers are the ones who own restored cars, touring class cars and modified cars. There's room for all and we need to be flexible. I'm not advocating changing the rules of the founders, but if you look at the cars those guys drove, they were all modified to some degree. I've been a member since 1974 and have seen this club evolve. I recall this big fight over allowing 41-48 cars to come in and the "huge fight" over the 49-53 cars being allowed to come into the club. Then along came the "Touring Class" and the "Touring A" class and then the "Display" class. The club has evolved, gained new members, and because of these changes we have not damaged the founding premise of the club. We still have national meets with a concourse and judging. We still award trophies in the various categories established by the founders and judging standards committee. The social aspect of this club is second to none and plays just as big a role in the meets as the old Fords. It's a family oriented club and if you go to enough national meets you will wind up with friends all over the United States and the world. In addition many club members, no matter what they drive, have contributed to the Early Ford V-8 Foundation which is preserving the history of the Early Ford V-8. It's easy to see that the common goal is the preservation of old Ford V-8s and their history. One of the founding principles of this club was you did not need to own a car to belong. All you had to have was an interest in the restoration and preservation of early Ford V-8s. It's still this way today. If all you own is a new GMC pickup , but like old Ford V-8s you can still be a member. Clubs are supposed to be fun and we should keep it that way. the best thing any member can do is find a new member and bring them into the club. If each current member brought in one new member we could double the size of this club in one year. O.K. I'll get off the "soap box". pauls39coupe 10-13-2017 @ 5:59 PM reply profile send p.m. Member Posts: 205 Joined: Jul 2014 The Early Ford V-8 Club "concourse division" is designed for cars which are correctly restored "as manufactured". Enter whatever you want in this division, but expect to get "dinged" points for whatever modifications you have made from stock. Some take it pretty hard when those nice Navaro heads, radial tires, and 12 volt generator bring point deductions. Henry didn't paint'em candy apple red. It may look great, but it didn't roll out of the Rouge plant like that. Your Great Race car, or mildly modified cars like it would fair best in the "touring", or in the Display class. These cars are voted on by other registered car owners using their personal preference not a judging standard. I would love to see a GAR car at the Dearborn Grand National this spring as would many others. I'd bet it would be the hit of the show. Just don't expect a Dearborn Award for restoration. The AACA, NSRA,VMCCA, etc all have their own rules for their own reasons. Their club, their rules. woodiewagon46 10-13-2017 @ 12:11 PM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 698 Joined: Nov 2012 I have no problem if someone has a car entered in the Display Class, that is what is commonly called a "resto rod". Take for example a '34 or '40 Ford with a modern V-8 that has stock fenders and hood so that no one knows that the engine isn't stock. The '34 might not have spoke wheels and have perhaps '40 wheels. They may have disc brakes and radial tires but other wise look completely stock. To me that is perfectly fine in that class. I also don't have an issue with a concourse restoration with an electric fuel pump. Say someone wants to drive their V-8 but has vapor lock issues because they have heavy traffic issues and the electric pump will cure it. If the car is restored to absolute concourse condition and the only issue is an electric pump, to me it is still perfect. As everyone on this site knows it takes a ton of money to restore a car to concourse standards. The other issue is not only the restoration cost. No one that I know, that owns a concourse car drives it. So a car trailer and tow vehicle is now needed. Not too many people that want to get into this hobby have that amount of disposable money. Don't get me wrong, if someone shows up with a chopped and channeled hot rod with a big loud motor they must not be allowed in. I think we need to encourage as many people as we can to enter our hobby. Perhaps we need to define the Display class a little further. engine 10-13-2017 @ 12:04 PM reply profile send p.m. New Member Posts: 103 Joined: Dec 2012 I for one when walking around at a car show happen to come across a Ford with a Chevy 350 in it I keep walking. I know it fits because it is a shorter block and it's a crate engine but I just don't like it. You sound like you may be running for a office in the club and you are putting out feelers to see what the response is. There's a California guy who is wanting to do just that, could that be you?

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