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EFV-8 Club Forum / General Ford Discussion / Alternator Vs. Generator

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Posted By Discussion Topic: Alternator Vs. Generator -- page: 1 2 3 4     39Fordfan 08-13-2014 @ 2:29 PM reply profile send p.m. Member Posts: 202 Joined: Oct 2009 Hi, A few weeks ago a made a post about a charging issue I have been having on my '39 Deluxe. I had banged the Voltage Regular with the back of a screw driver and the car ran really bad. So I changed the voltage regulator and the car ran better, but it still doesn't charge at the rate it should. Plus, I am also still getting some discharge from somewhere in the system after the car sits for a day or so. I thought this might've been due to the Voltage Regulator points remaining closed, but now I'm not so sure, with a new one in there. So now, with the generator putting out about 3.5 - 4 volts I am looking to replace it. Someone told me you can get a 6 volt positive ground Alternator that looks like a generator. The advantage being enough juice to actually run brighter halogen lights and it is internally regulated. He absolutely swears by his. One knock I heard was that the alternator runs hot inside of the generator housing and burns out quicker. What else do you think could go wrong with this set-up? I'd be interested to hear what you guys think of this issue, and what the simplest, fastest way to brighter lights is, with a nod to originality. 4dFordSC 08-13-2014 @ 2:53 PM reply profile send p.m. Member Posts: 266 Joined: Oct 2009 Ed Whitney does not use the original generator housing for his conversions. You need only send him your end plates, and he makes his own lightweight housing. I've been using one of his conversions for nearly 10 years, and have had no problems with heat or anything else. This message was edited by 4dFordSC on 8-13-14 @ 2:54 PM len47merc 08-13-2014 @ 3:09 PM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 1165 Joined: Oct 2013 Albeit I'm talking '47 versus '39, but I ran into a similar situation when bringing this car back to life last year. After 4 - yes FOUR - voltage regulators (moral of the story - don't trust 'new' regulators), and also an armature change in the generator after having the gen tested on a growler and watching sparks shoot out the front of the gen ~6-8 inches at a local auto/electrical shop, I finally gave up on local/national auto parts shops' regulators and invested in a Quality voltage regulator (supplied by and validated by the same shop). After installing the new armature and supplying the shop with the gen they validated the output under load at 68 amps and also ensured the regulator was polarized and producing full output. After scr*w*ng around with this for a while myself, finally after letting the professionals/experts have at it, after install all issues were resolved and charging and output has been on the mark ever since. Wish I'd made this decision initially and saved myself hours of frustration. Output is 7.2-7.4V now. Have 2 neighbors with 6V systems in their classics and they cannot believe how bright this '47's original headlights are. Taillights are quite visible during daylight hours. Dash and interior lights have the look they should. Voltage to the coil is correct. If you can stay original with your gen I'd recommend the same and as well recommend you find a quality auto/electrical shop skilled in classics early in your efforts to test and validate both your generator and the VR. Steve TomO 08-14-2014 @ 6:34 AM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 7256 Joined: Oct 2009 I like the painting of your 39. You can determine if the low charging voltage is due to the regulator or generator by connecting a jumper from the ARM terminal to the FLD terminal for a few seconds while running the engine at a fast idle and reading the voltage. It should be at least 7.5 volts if the generator is good. Before you buy an alternator, you must find the source of the current draw on your battery. The easiest way to do this is to disconnect the NEG battery cable and connect a test light between the cable and the battery post. If the light lights, you have a short somewhere. Start disconnecting connections and watch the light. A digital camera can be helpful in this process. Take photos before disconnecting wires, so you can see how they were connected when you want to restore the wiring back to normal. Along with Steve's comments about the head lights, in most cases dim lights are not receiving the correct voltage or are incorrectly aimed. The lights on a 6 volt car need a minimum of 6 volts to give the proper illumination. I have found dimmer switches that drop 1.5 volts. Head light switches are another source of voltage drop. The stock wiring in a 39 is not sufficient for halogen lights. If you have them install or are going to install them, you must either change the wiring to a heavier gauge, or install a relay to feed the bulbs. Tom JT Ford 08-14-2014 @ 7:24 AM reply profile send p.m. New Member Posts: 112 Joined: Oct 2009 Contrary to popular believe, halogen seal beam headligt bulbs are not higher amperage. I have a pair in my l950 made by Wagner and they are much brighter and they are white. I have tried halagen tail light bulbs and the original wiring will not handle the load. I didn't believe this to be true when I bought them but I go on Wagner's web site and it was true...... supereal 08-14-2014 @ 8:38 AM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 6819 Joined: Oct 2009 Halogen headlights are about 100 watts each, while standard sealed beams draw about 50 watts each. Under Ohm's Law (Watts equal Amps times Voltage) , so the standard amperage draw is about 16 amps for the two, while the halogens draw almost 35 amps for the pair. With the output for a standard generator almost equal to the halogen load, nothing is left for the rest of the vehicle. Factor in the usual loss in the dash switch and dimmer, output is too low for the headlights of either type to be nearly as bright as necessary for nightime driving. With halogens in my 47, they were less bright than the standard type. After the installation of an alternator and relay board, they are now nearly as bright as my modern vehicles on six volts. JT Ford 08-14-2014 @ 11:27 AM reply profile send p.m. New Member Posts: 112 Joined: Oct 2009 Wagner H-6006 sealed beams are halogen. They are 7 inch, 6 volt they are 50/40 and draw 8.2 amps on high and 6.2 amps on low. There is a small halogen bulb inside the sealed beam unit,you can see it.The bulb is cooler to the feel when on. The are diffentlly brighter and they are whiter. Wagner do not make or sell the old 6006 any longer. That is the hole story.. Look it up........some NAPA stores sell them len47merc 08-14-2014 @ 12:27 PM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 1165 Joined: Oct 2013 39Fordfan - I think it comes down to this: 1) How much do you drive at night? 2) How many accessories have been added or are planned to be added to your car? 3) Do you know how bright your lights can be if your original system is charging properly? If you now do, is this acceptable given the amount of night driving you do (assuming they are properly aligned)? 4) How much do you care about originality? Even if the answer to 4 is very little to none, TomO's comments and recommendations will very likely provide answers as to whether there is value in investing the money to convert. Keep in mind also you are talking '39 technologies and capabilities versus post-war. Steve supereal 08-14-2014 @ 1:12 PM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 6819 Joined: Oct 2009 I'm not familiar with Wagner, even though I had them on my '47, and they were yellow, at best. All halogen lamps burn considerably hotter than regular bulbs, and require higher current. My amp measurements were made with our Amprobe. The headlights were from Drake. The NAPA site didn't give either the wattage or Lumen numbers. The figures given in the post would be correct for non-halogen lamps, which are doubled for two headlights. If the H-6006 are brighter than regular bulbs, but draw regular wattage, that would be great. I just haven't seen the evidence. This message was edited by supereal on 8-14-14 @ 1:41 PM JT Ford 08-14-2014 @ 4:26 PM reply profile send p.m. New Member Posts: 112 Joined: Oct 2009 Superreal, You should like these bulbs then, you have a computor check it out. Wagner does not make a 6v. bulb like the older ones. When I bought them this Spring I didn't believe it either, but its true!

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