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EFV-8 Club Forum / General Ford Discussion / 1936 ID plates missing

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Posted By Discussion Topic: 1936 ID plates missing     1936dan 11-30-2009 @ 3:49 PM reply profile send p.m. Member Posts: 2 Joined: Nov 2009 When I bought my 1936 Cabriolet 5 yrs ago I was not aware that the serial number on the left front frame rail was not there. It is totaly smooth where the number should be. The car has been registered and driven every year in California. There are no id plates on the firewall. Is there any way I can get blank ID plates or re-stamp the frame rail without hurting the value of the car? Tom/SC 11-30-2009 @ 4:21 PM reply profile send p.m. Member Posts: 51 Joined: Oct 2009 Dan, yes the VIN number would be located on the left frame rail, in the area right where the front crossmember is riveted to the frame,could be as far back as the just in front of the firewall. Usually begins with a star, then an 18 prefix number. The same number is stamped in the left rail in the center of the front door, then again at the rear frame crossmember. The same number was first stamped on the top of the transmission at a smooth area in the metal. I have seen times when the number is very difficult to find, but if you clean down to the bare metal,you should be able to find it in the area I have desribed. I hope this helps you! Tom G Tosel 11-30-2009 @ 5:44 PM reply profile send p.m. Member Posts: 92 Joined: Oct 2009 You can get a reproduction of the ID tag for the firewall, but this comes with a 68 prefix for 1936 Fords. You then stamp the model number for Cabriolet and in some cases followed by the number produced of that body style. This is not used for identification. I agree the serial number is located as discussed and the style and type of numbers and the star symbol is special. Legally you cannot alter a serial number and you must have a number on your title that is visible to get registration. Some states require their own ID tag and do not use the original serial number. I would look carefully at the frame near the steering box to be sure it was not filled with paint or body filler. Thanks. Gary Tosel 1936dan 12-01-2009 @ 8:32 AM reply profile send p.m. Member Posts: 2 Joined: Nov 2009 Thanks for the info. Unfortunately I removed all paint down to bare metel at the front frame rail location and there is no number. I know the location is correct because I have a 36 woody and the id number is visible at this spot. Are the other locations accessible with out disassembly of the car? Also, being as the frame rail is bare, why cant I stamp the number from the registration where it is supposed to be? Thanks 42wagon 12-01-2009 @ 9:02 AM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 584 Joined: Oct 2009 Dan As has already been mentioned there are four locations for the serial number. Two of these are under the body and probably not visible without lifting the body. Aside from the front frame rail the other location is on the top of the transmission casting above the little clutch inspection door. The number should be *18-______* If the number on your title does not look like this be very cautious about recreating the number as someone in the know in the future is going to question what you put on the frame. If it doesn't agree with the numbers under the body you are going to have a real problem on your hands. Assuming the title number does agree with the numbers on either the transmission or frame I see no problem recreating it. However it will be questioned if you do not use exactly the same number stamps Ford used. Ted wmsteed 12-01-2009 @ 10:31 AM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 613 Joined: Oct 2009 A little more info on ID/VIN numbers. The factory built '36 Ford bodies did not have ID plates on the firewall, only the out sourced bodies from Briggs, Murry, etc. had body ID plates. Look on the right side of your firewall for two small holes. The body number is not the same as the frame VIN number. There are probably more bodies w/out body numbers than there are bodies with numbers. I have written many responses to this very same question on the old forum, and will do so again: In this new age of computers and instant info, one must be very careful trying to create something that does not exist. If the number is missing from your frame, it is missing for a reason... e.g. the frame was replaced and/or the number was ground off for some reason or another, a stolen car, etc. I know of two people who had to lift the body off the frame to verify the VIN number. My brother owned a '37 Ford in California for fifteen years. The car appeared to be a basicly stock car, except for a repaint and hydraulic brakes. When my brother moved to Idaho he had to have the VIN number verified....low and behold the frame did not have have a VIN number. After proving fifteen years of ownership, the state assigned a new number to the car, riveting a plate to the frame. If you lift the body and find the original number, and the number matches the number on your title, then you could re-stamp the number in the correct place adjacent to the steering gears, however, if the numbers don't match, you could be in a world of hurt. A word of caution...Cars that have been reported as stolen, never fall off the list until they are recovered. All of this info has now been entered into a data base. When an attempt is made to register a vehicle that does not have a correct number, the system goes tilt and the car has to be verified, e.g. frame off, etc. In the past few years there has been several reports, either in the news papers or on TV, mentioning stolen cars that have been recovered thirty plus years after the loss. Be very careful how you handle this matter, going about it wrong could result in someone knocking on your door asking for "their car" back... Bill 36 5 win delx cpe MOXIE 12-01-2009 @ 12:36 PM reply profile send p.m. New Member Posts: 102 Joined: Oct 2009 Personally myself, I would not touch a car if it did not have the number on the rail match the title. I have a friend that has a nice 34 roadster and for some reason it’s missing the number on the rail. I asked what’s on the title and he said he did not know, because he never paid any attention. And he gave a great deal of money for the car. He got the title transfer because he knew someone who worked at that department and they just took his word that everything was OK. He’s going to have a big surprise if he ever tries to sell the car because I believe most states check your title against the car number to make sure everything is OK. Tom/SC 12-01-2009 @ 1:49 PM reply profile send p.m. Member Posts: 51 Joined: Oct 2009 Dan, all of these suggestions should help you,and I am sure as had been said that some Fords today dont have a visible number, I dont know. We just recently cleaned two different 40 Ford frames and the numbers were difficult to find. After much searching, we found one frame had the number stamped just beside the steering box mount. The second frame had the number stamped right where the front crossmember is riveted to the left rail. I recently saw a 34 Ford that someone had welded over the numbers,trying to obscure them. I also would be leary about stamping numbers on the frame without legal approval. I hope you can find your numbers! Tom wmsteed 12-02-2009 @ 10:35 AM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 613 Joined: Oct 2009 While reading old publications concerning motor vehicles, I have encountered several articles that dealt with the large number of stolen vehicles in the teens and twenties. Starting in about 1929 a big push was made to standardize VIN's, moving away from the practice of just putting a plate on the dash or attached to the wood seat structure, etc. Other than Ford, many manufactures, especially those that made multiple models of vehicles adopted a policy of using two or three identification plates, one for the VIN which is usually stamped onto the frame in at least two places. Early GM vehicles stamped the VIN onto the engine, and mounted a data plate on the firewall, whereas Chrysler stamped the engine with one number, and a VIN plate on the door jamb, and a body number on the body. It has been reported that Ford did not use an engine number because he felt the engines would be replaced, where-as the trans and/or frame would not be. Little did he know that accidents, etc.. would result in the VIN's being ground off the frame. Many states are now requiring two indentification locations on all undocumented and/or out of state vehicles. This is easy on GM and Chrysler vehicles, but can be a problem on the EFV8's. Having worked in the auto repair industry during the 1940's/50's, I can a-test to the fact that it was common practice to grind numbers off of bent frames, replacement engines, etc. to avoid the expense of someone having to go to the court house to file paper work to transfer numbers from replacement parts.... Bill 36 5 win delx cpe

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