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EFV-8 Club Forum / General Ford Discussion / New 1938 COE Firetruck looking for James Wagner

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Posted By Discussion Topic: New 1938 COE Firetruck looking for James Wagner     TomO 09-09-2010 @ 9:35 AM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 7250 Joined: Oct 2009 Dot 3 brake fluid absorbs moisture whether you dive the car or let it sit. When you drive the car the brake fluid gets warm and the moisture starts to evaporate. Letting it sit causes more moisture damage than driving it. John, you are right to flush your system frequently. I will help protect your system from moisture damage. Tom ford38v8 09-07-2010 @ 6:32 PM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 2758 Joined: Oct 2009 One more step that is critical to good brakes with rods: All rods must be true. No amount of bend is permissable. Remove every one and roll them on a flat surface for truing. When time for final adjustment, rear brakes should be slightly looser than fronts to prevent skidding rears. A trial run with fine adjustment will be required no matter how carefully it was adjusted while on blocks. I'm thinking that the big trucks will have the same wedges and adjustment system as the passenger cars, and if so, conversion to floaters from wedges will enhance performance and maintenance requirements to the 1949 level. This is a very simple conversion if it applys to the big trucks, well worth looking into. The 1949 adjusters use a star and spoon as opposed to a wedge and nut. Much better. Alan supereal 09-07-2010 @ 10:19 AM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 6819 Joined: Oct 2009 As I recall, the big trucks did have rods. With any vehicle using that type of brakes, several things are critical to performance. The end bushings on the cross shaft, where the pedal rod activates the wheel rod, must not have any discernible play. All clevises at the rod ends must have round holes. Many are worn egg-shaped. All the pins in the system should be replaced. The wedges that push the shoes out to the drums have to be in good condition, often needing to be built up and ground to the correct shape. Of course, the drum surfaces must be even, and the linings fitted to the diameter of the drums. When all of this is complete, the brake pedal should be propped about half way down, the backing plate wedges backed off, and the rods adjusted until the linings just touch the drums, no more. Remove the prop from the pedal, and with each wheel off the ground, adjust the brake wedges until you feel a slight drag, then back off slightly. Never readjust the rod clevises after you have done that first step. If the brake pedal goes down too far, adjust the rod between the pedal and the cross shaft. If all is done correctly, you should have adequate brakes, but don't expect a big truck to "stop on a dime". This message was edited by supereal on 9-7-10 @ 2:18 PM JMadsen 09-07-2010 @ 7:28 AM reply profile send p.m. Member Posts: 2 Joined: Sep 2010 Thanks guys for the direction on materials and books etc. I crawled around under the truck a little bit before laying down some money, the brakes control looks like solid rods not neccesarily cables? is this just a terminology thing? as I'm not familiar with these brake systems (I guess they do look similar to the model A brake controls) just bigger if I remember right. I'm not sure exactly what the plan will be until I get into it more. yes, brakes on this big truck are my biggest concern so will want something that works good and is reliable. thanks Josh supereal 09-06-2010 @ 8:43 AM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 6819 Joined: Oct 2009 My longtime friend, Alan, and I usually disagree about cable brakes. He has a '38, and knows the ins and outs of keeping this system in shape. Cable brakes were a last ditch try by Ford to avoid hydraulics, which arrived in '39. I do agree with him that mechanical brakes in good condition and properly adjusted can be as effective as hydraulics. My suggestion about conversion is centered on what kind of shape the system is on your COE. Big trucks are in a different class than cars, and braking requirements differ according to intended use. We installed vacuum boosters on some of those with mechanical systems many years ago if, like firetrucks with onboard water tanks, stopping in a reasonable distance was often required. ford38v8 09-05-2010 @ 5:55 PM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 2758 Joined: Oct 2009 John, your strategy is a good one, but few poeple will fix something until it goes wrong. There's another consideration also: One, if it has cables now, it's quite a bit of work and expense to convert as opposed to refresh what is correct for the vehicle. It may be a moot question as regards Josh's truck however, as the original conversion may itself have had juice brakes. Alan oldford2 09-05-2010 @ 3:25 PM reply profile send p.m. Member Posts: 275 Joined: Oct 2009 Alan, I don't understand your concern for Bob's (Supereal) advice to consider Hydraulic brakes. I would think frequent use might be more liable to "absorb moisture" than "sitting around". In any event I think it is an issue of little concern. Every fall, my wife works the brake pedal and we run a quart of brake fluid (DOT 3)thru our 46. What could be easier?? John ford38v8 09-05-2010 @ 2:11 PM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 2758 Joined: Oct 2009 Josh, The book you refer to is: Ford Trucks Since 1905 by James K. Wagner. It may be out of print now, I don't know, you might check online for it. James is the Heavy Truck advisor for the EFV8CA, his contact information is listed in the V8 Times. You'd do well to join the club, as there are a number of other poeple who have extensive experience with large trucks who can also be of help to you. PS- I don't agree with Super's advice regarding cable brakes, particularly for a vehicle that may sit idle much of the year to draw moisture into a hydraulic brake system. Alan This message was edited by ford38v8 on 9-5-10 @ 2:15 PM supereal 09-05-2010 @ 11:45 AM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 6819 Joined: Oct 2009 Josh: Looks like a great project. I love those old COEs ever since my family had one with a dump body on it. The best source of reliable manuals I know of is the C&G online catalog www,cgfordparts.com, Look at Section 2. There are over 20 pages of manuals, etc. Ford didn't produce their own shop manual, but Ford of Canada did. There are two, one for 32-41, and 39-48, V-224 and V-222. Most are designed for cars and pickups, but have plenty of info for other trucks, including large ones. With mechanical cable brakes, your '38 will take quite a bit of work. You may wish to consider adding hydraulics, instead. JMadsen 09-05-2010 @ 7:20 AM reply profile send p.m. Member Posts: 2 Joined: Sep 2010 Good morning, I'm new here and recently purchased a 1938 COE firetruck, truck is in great shape but has been sitting for some time and will require a little bit of work to get back on the road again. My plan is to go through the brakes, and mechanical's etc and get it back on the road, then over time see what it needs but I want to keep it original as I can. I was refered to contact James Wagner on here as he has written a "Very good book" about the ford trucks of this era. --- I need to find service manuels, service bulletins etc so I can start planning out my project. I cant start this one right away as I've got a 1952 F-6 that I am working on currently. thanks in advance for any info Josh

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