Early Ford V-8 Club Forum

FORUM RULES: Users agree to these Rules when using Forum.

The site administrator reserves the right to change the terms and conditions of the user agreement without prior notice to the user. It is the responsibility of the user to regularly review the terms of this agreement.

The user agrees to the following terms:

All information that you provide to us for your membership is correct.
You will not use your membership to spam, harrass, or exploit other members in any way.
Vulgar, Abusive, Racist and Sexist Language will not be tolerated.
Commercial-type sales postings will not be allowed.
No mass posting or flooding of the boards is allowed.
No Advertising of parts or cars; no Ebay or business/commercial ads (please use the "Classified" for ads Wanted or For Sale).
VIEWING MULTIPLE TOPICS ON SCREEN: You can choose to see more than 10 Topics at a time ... Log In and choose "Preferences" from the top bar on the Forum page. Scroll down and Change the "Default Topics Returned" parameter to 25 or 50, and save the changes. Since this setting is stored in your browser 'cookies' (if enabled), it seems to use that stored value even if you are not logged in. So, if you use a PC that you haven't logged into the forum from, the setting still seem to remain at the default.
EXTERNAL PHOTO LINKS ON FORUM: You can still use external photo links in your posts on the new forum. They follow the rules of any link in that they have to have the URL link qualified down to the full image file name (example: .jpg). The links will open in a new browser window, the same as an uploaded image attached to a post. Since an image attachment to any post does not display inline with the post, the results are the same. You can use multiple external links within a post. This link is from photos on a site from Don Clink's 'Deuce@75' albums:

http://donclink.com/deuce_75_1/images/dscn2950.jpg

Using links from photo sites such as Photobucket can help in "size" issue with uploaded attachment files. For best viewing in web browsers, photos should be around the 800x600 pixel range, and probably not more than 1024x768. Most cameras today store HUGE jpg image files, as the default settings are in the 7, 8, 10, and 12Mb image sizes. The image files that are then attached are very large, and the browser can't display the full image size without using the scroll bars. Use the re-sizing functions of your photo editing software to reduce the image to 800x600, which reduces the file sixe and the image load time in the browser. Don uses Google's free Picassa3 software, which is an excellent photo management product. All of the photo albums of the Deuce, Grand National, and Auburn that are links on the NORG site were built using Picassa's web creation functions. And it's free? (THANKS to Don Clink for the info!)
HOW DO I SHOW MY EMAIL ADDRESS ALONG WITH MY USERNAME? You can LogIn on the Forum, and select PREFERENCES. On this page Members can add optional information such as their City,State, Country; Occupation; Hobbies: list a Homepage; list AOL Instant Messanger Handle; Signature; "Make Email Address viewable to others;" and even change the number of Default Topics shown on a page. WHEN others click on your profile, they will see this information.

EFV-8 Club Forum / General Ford Discussion / Trying to understand K.R. Wilson Timing Fixture...

Reply to Discussion | New Discussion

<< previous || next >>

Posted By

Discussion Topic: Trying to understand K.R. Wilson Timing Fixture...

RAK402

10-25-2020 @ 4:32 PM

reply profile send p.m.

Member
Posts: 436
Joined: Jul 2015

About four years ago, I was pursuing this quite heavily (also trying to find a Sun Timing machine at a price that I could afford, which I never did).

An automobile accident (not in my Ford, thank heaven), and then life got in the way.

Now that I am working on the Ford again, I dug out my timing fixture. I also went through the Ford V8 Service Bulletins: 1938-1940 Complete, and scoured the internet for advice/instructions regarding how to use the K.R. Wilson V-126.

This is what I have found so far (please correct me if/where I am wrong, as I am trying to learn this). My apologies for this being so long:

There are at least three versions of the KR Wilson V126:

1) Early version for V8 only has only an “F” on the rotating Disk
2) Middle version has an “F” and an “L” on the rotating disk, the “L” being added for the Lincoln V12.
3) Last version has both the “F” and the “L,” and a moveable protractor to read the dwell.

Some versions have a wooden box, possibly the earlier versions, as so far I have never seen one without the protractor/dwell scale mounted on a metal box.

Notes:

1) The left (driver’s side) points control the spark. When these open, the spark occurs. The duration of the dwell for these points is set by their eccentric screw. The timing of the actual opening is set by the Timing Disc.
2) The closing of the right (passenger side) points start the dwell.
3) There is an overlap where both points are closed. This determines the total dwell.
4) The reason for the two sets of points is to increase the dwell time (time for coil saturation).

Using the earlier version without the protractor/dwell scale:

1) The points are set to .014-.016” using a feeler gauge. There is no provision for measuring the dwell, only the timing.
2) The timing is correct the light goes out exactly when the “F” line on the disk lines up with the Master Mark on the casting of the unit.
3) If the timing is not correct:
a. The spark advance lock screw is loosened as little as possible to allow movement of the timing Timing Disc.
b. The timing is then moved (counter-clockwise) to the full retarded position.
c. The disc on the unit is rotated several full turns.
d. The disc is then turned until the pin (to the left of the master mark) can be dropped into the hole in the disc.
e. The spark advance is then moved slowly in the clockwise direction, until the light just goes out.
f. The spark advance lock screw is tightened down.
g. The pin is pulled back up from the hole in the disc and the disc rotated- The timing is correct the light goes out exactly when the “F” line on the disk lines up with the Master Mark on the casting of the unit.

This seems to accomplish the same thing as KenCT does where he measures the gap and then adjusts the firing point with a straight edge.

Using the later version with the protractor- The procedure for using this version is more lengthy and uses the setting of the dwell for each set of points, individually, to set both the time when the dwell starts and its duration. The firing point is still determined by adjusting the spark advance:

1) The dwell for the left/driver’s side set of points it set up to exactly 22.5 degrees as follows:
a. A piece of paper between the right/passenger side points to insulate them.
b. The disc is rotated counter-clockwise until the light just comes on.
c. The protractor/dwell scale is moved to the location of an “F” line.
d. The disc is rotated counter-clockwise again until the light just goes out-if this does not measure out at 22.5 degrees, the points are adjusted by rotating the eccentric screw and the test repeated.
e. Once 22.5 degrees of dwell is achieved, the locking screw for the left/driver’s side points is tightened.
2) As with the older model, the timing is correct the light goes out exactly when the “F” line on the disk lines up with the Master Mark on the casting of the unit. If the timing is not correct:
a. The spark advance lock screw is loosened as little as possible to allow movement of the timing Timing Disc.
b. The timing is then moved (counter-clockwise) to the full retarded position.
c. The disc on the unit is again rotated several full turns to eliminate any slack.
d. The disc is then turned until the pin (to the left of the master mark) can be dropped into the hole in the disc.
e. The spark advance is then moved slowly in the clockwise direction, until the light just goes out.
f. The spark advance lock screw is tightened down.
g. The protactor/dwell scale is rotated until the 45 degree mark lines up with the Mastermark on the casting of the unit.
h. The pin is pulled back up from the hole in the disc and the disc rotated counter-clockwise again, several times to remove slack.
3) The dwell is then set for the left set of points, with the goal being 22.5 degrees.
a. Remove the paper insulation from the right/passenger side points and place it between the right/driver’s side points.
b. Rotate the disc counter-clockwise until an “F” line, lines up with the 10 degree mark on the protractor (the protractor still with the 45 degree line, lined up with the Master Mark).
c. Adjust the eccentric screw on the right/passenger side points until the light just comes on-the light should stay on until the “F” line passes 22.5 degrees (the 32.5 degree mark on the protractor/dwell scale).
d. The locking screw for the right/passenger side points is now tightened.
4) The overall dwell and timing are now tested with no paper insulators installed and both the locking screws for the points tight, and the one that locks the timing disc tight. The protractor/dwell scale is still positioned with the 45 degree mark aligned with the Master Mark on the unit. When he disc is rotated counter-clockwise:
a. The light should come on when an “F” mark lines up with the 10 degree mark on the protractor/dwell scale.
b. The light should go out when the “F” mark lines up with the 45 degree mark on the protractor/dwell scale which is in line with the Master Mark on the unit-35 degrees total dwell.

All of this assumes that the points are correct-not poorly made reproductions, the distributor is in good shape mechanically, etc.

After the new points break in, the timing will alter, possibly requiring the distributor to be removed and re-set up.

A stroboscope is a better way to set up an early Ford distributor.

The above information was gleaned from the Ford V8 Service Bulletins, the K.R. Wilson Instructions, posts by people on this forum, the Ford Barn, and other areas of the internet.

Am I more or less, on course here?

This message was edited by RAK402 on 10-25-20 @ 10:07 PM

George7

01-27-2021 @ 9:00 AM

reply profile send p.m.

Member
Posts: 2
Joined: Sep 2012

Hi, Thanks for the information on the KR Wilson fixture. I recently acquired an Allen Syncrograph timing machine from a friend. It works except for weak vacuum, but I do not have the adapter needed to time my Ford distributor for my 39 Standard. The operating manual which I have states that an addition kit is needed for early V8 Ford distributors. The kit is listed as W-93 Ford Adapter Kit.
Do you know of anyone who would have the instruction manual or the kit itself?
Thanks,
George Goodridge.

RAK402

01-27-2021 @ 11:37 PM

reply profile send p.m.

Member
Posts: 436
Joined: Jul 2015

Sadly, I do not sir.

There are a lot of people on the forums here who have a great deal of information-hopefully someone will chime in.

I would like to see a phot of your Allen Syncrograph timing machine-I find these things extremely interesting.

Grant

02-03-2021 @ 7:01 AM

reply profile send p.m.

Senior
Posts: 535
Joined: Oct 2009

A two-page copy of the original KRW instructions sheet for the VR-126 timing fixture is currently on Ebay for $9.95 plus postage (listing number 114661925375).

According to the description, it is "nicely illustrated by the manufacturer" and "laminated in plastic to permanently prevent damage caused by dirty fingers".

George7

02-04-2021 @ 12:15 PM

reply profile send p.m.

Member
Posts: 2
Joined: Sep 2012

Here are some pictures of the Allen Syncrograph machine that I have. 2 pictures are of the internals with the 1.4 horse electric motor that runs the distributor shaft; and a good image of the vacuum pump. A strange contraption that used two opposing cylinders run by a shaft eccentric.
Look on Utube; there is a short video of one running a standard type distributor and several pictures. There may be some for sale on Ebay. I am still looking for the Ford adapter kit for the pre-1948 distributors
There are some Sun adapters that might work.
George.

RAK402

02-04-2021 @ 8:11 PM

reply profile send p.m.

Member
Posts: 436
Joined: Jul 2015

George7, Thank you for posting those photos.

That is a great deal more sophisticated than the KR Wilson Fixture.

You machine is extremely impressive!

<< previous || next >>

NOTE: YOU MUST BE A REGISTERED USER AND BE LOGGED IN TO POST (and reply to) messages in this forum. If you are a first time user, please click the CREATE A NEW ACCOUNT in the masthead above to register and Log In. After that, all you do is LOG IN to enjoy using this site.

DISCLAIMER: The V-8 Club does no independent testing of any of the opinions, thoughts or suggestions presented in the website on the Forum, in the Tech Tips section, or any section. A reader should consider the website to be a forum wherein differing solutions to a particular set of circumstances may be discussed. Ultimately, the selection of an item for an individual's vehicle must be based upon the independent study of the vehicle owner in consultation with people in the hobby and restoration experts.

Early Ford V-8 Club Forum

Merchandise Questions

Membership Questions