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Posted By Discussion Topic: columbia vs 3 54 gears -- page: 1 2     40topless 04-25-2017 @ 4:39 PM reply profile send p.m. Member Posts: 38 Joined: Jun 2015 Hi there. I am installing a set of 3 54 in my second 40. I have another car I want to do. I have several sets of 3 54 gears and a Columbia. Which route should I go. I can go fast enough with the 3 54. Is the Columbia worth all the hassle? kubes40 04-25-2017 @ 6:00 PM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 3406 Joined: Oct 2009 If you are satisfied with the performance obtained with the 3:54 ratio, you have answered your own question The Columbia with the 3:54 will only add to the possible top speed. I can imagine doing 75MPH+ in a '40 Ford. I can't imagine. stopping and / or steering well in case of an emergency. Personally I like a 3:78 with a Columbia. Allows the car to cruise well at 60MPH and still can move away from corners nicely. Stroker 04-27-2017 @ 11:59 AM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 1460 Joined: Oct 2009 I have used 4. 44's, 4.11's, and 3.78's with my Columbia. When our wagon was new, in 1938, it came with 4:44's, and that worked great for towing stuff in the mountains, as you could "split-shift" it and have 6-speeds on the hills. I switched it over to 4:11's when I started driving it. After I "hopped it up with a Mercury "stroker" engine, I jumped up to 3.78's. I don't know what the "terrain" is like where you live, but If you "elect" to go with your Columbia, I'd just make sure you have a low enough ring and pinion ratio to accommodate the terrain. If you live in the "flatlands" like I do presently, I'd "skip" the Skyway Drive, and keep it simple with the 3.54's. len47merc 04-27-2017 @ 3:16 PM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 1165 Joined: Oct 2013 All good advice from kubes40 and Stroker. I add that your decision on gear choice should include not only considerations of terrain (flat land vs. hilly/foothills vs. mountainous) but also two other considerations: 1) The worst case scenario you may encounter in terms of vehicle loading. A car with only a driver in it will perform increasingly less effectively with 2, 3 or 4 passengers and a higher gear. Just today drove the '47 with wife and neighbors across very hilly terrain 25 miles for lunch and with the 3.78 gear and easily close to 800 lbs loading the '47 still had the torque to maintain 60 mph highway speed easily, and 2) With whatever gear you choose will the OD reduction still keep the vehicle in the optimum torque range for your targeted driving conditions? If not you will find yourself excessively shifting into and out of OD. 3.78 is my choice as well - have to agree with Mike. Without an OD plenty of torque and pep around town/off the line and as well comfortable cruising at 60 mph actual/2,500 rpm on flats or in the foothills and mountains. Plenty of flexibility when taking long tours such as driving several hundred miles one way to a national meet. If I had a 30% reduction Columbia, which I do not, but if the '47 did, the car would realize 1,750 rpm at 60 mph (very low in the optimum torque range for a 59AB) and shifting into and out of OD frequently would be realized, particularly here in central and western NC. With a 3.54 around here - and getting anywhere out of the state - this problem would be worsened more, and worsened even further with additional passengers and/or luggage/loading. To Mike's other point - once, and only once, I pushed the car on a rare, local 4 mile straight to see what it would do after making it (suspension/front end/shocks/tires/brakes, etc.) mechanically and functionally safe to drive/as new. Never floated the valves and backed off (well) north of 4,000 rpm (leave it to your imagination on actual GPS speed - I'm a bit embarrassed to admit I did this). The moral of the story here is this was way, way WAY more than enough to convince me 60 mph is the MAX from handling and safety perspectives, hence no need for an OD. Scary to think what might happen in the event an emergency move might be required above 60 with these 3,200# boats - on bias plys or otherwise. Just helped purchase a '40 Deluxe recently (with kubes40 help and advice) with a Columbia and 3.78 gears. The owner, a colleague of mine, has driven it 1,800 miles so far and other than shifting the Columbia to confirm functionality he has yet to find the need to use it in practice. He too limits his top speed to 60 mph and likes the torque he has at this speed. Just further food for thought. Cheers - Steve 39 Ken 04-28-2017 @ 4:53 AM reply profile send p.m. Member Posts: 380 Joined: Oct 2009 As others have said, the 3.78/1 is the ideal rear gear for the Columbia. That is the combination using 6.00/16 tires along with a stock motor that I run in my '39 coupe. When running in normal third gear without the Columbia engaged, the RPM's are around 2600 at 55 mph. Engaging the Columbia the rpm's drop to around 1880 rpms. That, in my opinion, is the beauty of the Columbia. Less wear and tear on the motor and the corresponding noise reduction is perfect. Also, it seems that 1850/1900 rpm's is right around the bottom of the power/torque curve which allows nice acceleration in a passing situation if needed. Ken len47merc 04-28-2017 @ 6:15 AM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 1165 Joined: Oct 2013 Ken also makes a another good point of consideration on tire size. I run 710s - about an inch or so taller than stock/original - and accordingly the '47's rpms are lower than Ken's at speed and a 30% reduction Columbia will put the car below the bottom end of the optimum torque curve/range for the 59AB. Not being experienced with the Columbia as Ken/others, are they available with differing reductions (say 33%) and if not what is the 'standard'? Steve Stroker 04-28-2017 @ 9:28 AM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 1460 Joined: Oct 2009 Len: In "the day", (early 60's) I regularly drove my 38 Station Wagon at 70 mph on our newly-constructed Southern California Freeways. To do "otherwise" would have gotten me rear-ended. The "beauty" of the Columbia was that the motor just "loafed-along" at those speeds even with my 3.78:1 gearset. When I had the 4.11's installed, I mostly ran the car in overdrive unless I was challenged to accelerate. Today, we'd call the motor I had a "full-race" engine, and (because of the lack of low-end due to camshaft timing); I NEEDED that "low range" to get off the line quickly. A word of caution though. Unless you have one of the "modified" Columbia's with the strap around the planetary gear set case; DO NOT attempt to "take-off in a hurry" from a standing stop in Low-Over. I once split the differential gear case on my Columbia doing that. EV8CA member John Connoly http://www.columbiatwospeedparts.com/ makes a strap-reinforced planetary to "solve" this issue. Regarding the overdrive "ratio" Steve, Columbias are ALL 30% overdrives. This message was edited by Stroker on 4-28-17 @ 9:35 AM Stroker 04-28-2017 @ 9:51 AM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 1460 Joined: Oct 2009 40topless: Here's description of what "going on" inside your Columbia's innards. As you can see, it's not a simple device, and while very useful, it does require a little "respect" during operation: With the dash mounted control pushed in (for direct drive), the sliding clutch in the rear axle locks the sun gear and the differential case (in which planetary pinions are mounted) so that the entire planetary gear system (sun gear, pinions, and outer internal gear) rotate as a unit and the ring gear drives the rear wheels directly. When the clutch is released and the control pulled out to the overdrive position, the vacuum cylinder pulls the sliding clutch out so that the differential case is free and engages the stationary clutch plate so that the sun gear is prevented from rotating. The ring gear then drives the differential case and pinions, and the rotation of the pinions (on the stationary sun gear) causes the internal gear and the axle shafts to revolve at a faster ‘overdrive’ speed. len47merc 04-29-2017 @ 10:20 AM reply profile send p.m. Senior Posts: 1165 Joined: Oct 2013 Thanks Stroker/all for your replies. 40topless - apologies if somehow I/we hijacked your discussion/question. Hopefully somewhere in all the dialogue you're able to piece together enough data to make the decision that is right for you. Please keep us posted on your decision and your results! Steve 40topless 05-09-2017 @ 5:10 PM reply profile send p.m. Member Posts: 38 Joined: Jun 2015 Good discussion. So like I stated I have 2 cars with 3 54 in them. Let me reword this. If you were building a car to drive and had your choice of rearends. I do. What would you pick for a easy hassle free way of going down the road. I have lots of gear sets in many ratios. Lots of flatmotors. And 3 old school 40s to drive. Lets here what you would do.

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