| tommyleea | -- 07-19-2016 @ 7:30 PM |
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I recently purchased a 53 Ranch wagon with the flat head V8. I rotated the motor prior to the purchase, to make sure it wasn't locked up. Well, I went to rotate it today, and found out it only rotates so far, and then stops. I can go back and forth until I reach a certain point. I am assuming that some valves are frozen in place. Is there anything I can do prior to tearing into it? Thanks
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| CharlieStephens | -- 07-19-2016 @ 10:42 PM |
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Did you try rotating it with the plugs out? Maybe you have a cylinder full of water. Charlie Stephens
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| tommyleea | -- 07-20-2016 @ 6:03 AM |
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Yes, the plugs are out. Good tip.
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| len47merc | -- 07-20-2016 @ 6:57 AM |
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Please accept this in the supportive spirit intended - have you checked and ensured the transmission is in neutral? Will the car roll 10-15 feet easily? You said you rotated the engine prior to purchasing the car - were these rotations full rotations at that time? Steve
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| tommyleea | -- 07-20-2016 @ 7:08 AM |
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Yes, the driveshaft is removed. Starter is free from the flywheel. And, unfortunately, I didn't rotate the engine a complete revolution initially. I just wanted to make sure it wasn't locked up. My bad. I also removed the fuel pump just for the heck of it. I will take on all advice.
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| deluxe40 | -- 07-20-2016 @ 9:03 AM |
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Might be a valve stuck in the closed position. Everything is good until the cam lobe comes around to open it. Maybe take the intake manifold off and give the valve train a bath in ATF mixed with Acetone.
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| tommyleea | -- 07-20-2016 @ 9:11 AM |
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OK, I will try that next. Thanks
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| len47merc | -- 07-20-2016 @ 9:21 AM |
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deluxe40 - will acetone attack the main bearings? I've seen main bearings sprayed with brake clean and the bearing coating is pretty much toast after that - don't know what acetone and associated fumes will do. Erring on the side of caution here - may be nothing to it but were it me I'd start with something more than a bit less aggressive like ATF & kerosene, etc.. EDIT - tommylea - are you convinced, even though the driveshaft is out, that nothing is locked up in the transmission? Steve This message was edited by len47merc on 7-20-16 @ 9:26 AM
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| 40 Coupe | -- 07-20-2016 @ 9:27 AM |
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You can use MMO to make sure everything is lubed.
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| tommyleea | -- 07-20-2016 @ 9:51 AM |
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47merc No, I guess I am not sure about the tranny. I will investigate that. Thanks.. This message was edited by tommyleea on 7-20-16 @ 9:52 AM
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| cliftford | -- 07-20-2016 @ 6:26 PM |
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If all else fails, here's what I would do: have someone turn the flywheel back and forth and I would stick a wire down the spark plug holes, one at a time to see if all the pistons are moving. If you find one that's not moving, it would suggest a broken rod or similar problem
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| deluxe40 | -- 07-20-2016 @ 7:40 PM |
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I agree that caution should prevail. Certainly, acetone needs to be handled with care. I'm not a chemist and I don't know about acetone and bearings. I do know that the varnish that sticks valves is very difficult to dissolve so I recommended what has been shown to be the most powerful stuff. I think it will take something more powerful than kerosene and/or ATF to loosen the varnish, but I'm not sure what that would be. Maybe Marvel Mystery Oil? I have a friend who has successfully freed engines by squirting MMO into the spark plug holes with a device he made for that purpose.
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| tommyleea | -- 07-23-2016 @ 11:47 AM |
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Removed the intake today. It appears that I am missing a couple of lifters! What would have happened to them? I took a prybar, and all the valves seem to be free. This is heartbreaking...looks like a teardown.
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| Bill4d1merc | -- 07-23-2016 @ 12:19 PM |
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It is possible that there may be something in one of the cylinder bores causing the piston to stop the rotation, this happened to me. After I removed the head I could then rotate the engine without a problem. Not sure where the lifters went, was there any evidence that this engine was torn apart before and just put together without the lifters? Bill
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| MG | -- 07-23-2016 @ 12:27 PM |
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Are you sure the lifters are missing? Stick your finger in the lifter bore.
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| tommyleea | -- 07-23-2016 @ 12:44 PM |
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I took a small mirror and flashlight, and I can see the lifter bore all the way to the bottom. I think I am missing at least two lifters. I don't know if the engine has been apart before or not. I am not sure why they would leave lifters out, and assemble everything back together. Significant amount of sludge/oil build up in the valley. I am at a loss.
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| deluxe40 | -- 07-23-2016 @ 7:21 PM |
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Quite a mystery! I can only think of three possibilities: 1) The engine was assembled without the two lifters (are the keepers still on the valves for those lifters? Are the two missing lifters on he same cylinder?), 2) The lifters vaporized due to some paranormal process, 3) The lifters or the cam broke in a way that allowed the lifters to go out the bottom (where they are lurking in your crankcase and jamming up your attempts to rotate the engine). Please let us know what you find out next!
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| tommyleea | -- 07-23-2016 @ 8:02 PM |
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The missing lifters are the two front cylinders. I actually pushed another lifter down, and out of the bore. The cam must be broken. I guess next step is to pull the motor and tear it apart.
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| tommyleea | -- 07-27-2016 @ 4:21 AM |
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Removed engine and tranny last night. I will start tearing it down today. Do you see a problem using an impact to loosen the headbolts? Normally I wouldn't use the impact for fear of twisting off the bolts, but could use your opinions.
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| tommyleea | -- 07-27-2016 @ 11:24 AM |
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Removed the oil pan. Camshaft is broken from first to second bearing journal. The rest of cam is in place. Not sure why or when it broke, but just a visual doesn't reveal any collateral damage. Doesn't look like things have been bouncing around.
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| tommyleea | -- 07-27-2016 @ 8:02 PM |
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Removed the passenger side head. Don't see any obvious damage. Actually the valves look in pretty good shape. I will remove the driver side head tomorrow.
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| tommyleea | -- 07-28-2016 @ 4:59 AM |
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Another thing I found interesting, is that the starter is held on by the through bolts. I had not run across that before. Ended up taking the starter off with the starter plate before I figured it out.
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| flathead4rd | -- 07-28-2016 @ 7:11 AM |
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Had a cam shaft break once back in the 50's on my 50 Ford. My fault because I ran out of oil. One does stupid things when your sixteen. Shaft broke into three pieces and naturally they fell into all the rotating rods, crank, etc. Engine completely destroyed. Fortunately back in 1955 you could buy a good used flathead from a junk yard for hundred bucks. Three days of work later and engine swap complete. The old fashion way as no cherry pickers available then.
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| cliftford | -- 07-28-2016 @ 10:53 AM |
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Here are my thoughts: any time you buy an old engine whether it runs or not, assume that it needs rebuilding. these old v8s can be pretty well worn and still sound pretty good. If the seller says it is rebuilt ask for paper work and try to contact the person or firm who did it.
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| tommyleea | -- 07-28-2016 @ 2:54 PM |
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Good thoughts Clifford. This was a non running engine. Seller didn't have any history on it. I thought I might be able to at least get it running, but no such luck. I am going to remove the driver side head tonight, and see if there are any surprises.
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| tommyleea | -- 07-28-2016 @ 9:14 PM |
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Removed the driver side cylinder head, and everything looks normal. Actually, looks in good shape. The intake valves are very clean, but that is probably a normal thing. Not much carbon build up on the other parts. I took pictures, and have them on photobucket, but I can't seem to get them loaded. I wonder why the camshaft would have broken? It doesn't look like the loose parts rattled around in the block.
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| tommyleea | -- 07-29-2016 @ 7:39 PM |
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Found one valve that is stuck tight. I think this is the reason for the broken cam. Pried on the valve guide to get the retainer out, and the valve guide broke. I read somewhere about drilling the head of the valve off. Then I could tap the guide down to remove the retainer, and then pry the assembly up and out of the block. Any thoughts?
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| tommyleea | -- 07-30-2016 @ 8:36 PM |
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Removed all the pistons and crank. Removed all the valves and guides except for the one that is stuck. So far, everything looks in good shape. Now, my next issue is the stuck valve. More to follow. If I can remove the cam from the rear, that is my next step. Then I will have access to the problem valve.
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| TomO | -- 08-01-2016 @ 7:36 AM |
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You should be able to remove the stuck valve by compressing the spring and removing the keeper at the bottom of the spring. Breaking the head of the valve off and driving the guide down to release the guide keeper (horse shoe clip) will also work. Tom
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| tommyleea | -- 08-01-2016 @ 11:28 AM |
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Thanks Tom..The keepers are off, but the valve is closed, and will not budge. Seems strange since it is an intake valve. If I can move the cam back I will be able to remove the lifter from the bottom. Then at least I will have a straight shot at the valve. Trying to figure out how to remove the oil pump drive gear that is in the block now.
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| tommyleea | -- 08-03-2016 @ 5:45 AM |
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Made up a slide hammer puller for the oil pump idler gear. Hopefully I will be able to remove the idler gear, and then move the cam back and away from the stuck valve. Then I can get the lifter, spring, and hardware out. That will give me a straight shot at the bottom of the valve. Wish me luck!
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| tommyleea | -- 08-03-2016 @ 8:43 PM |
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Well, removed the oil pump idle gear, and sure enough the camshaft cam out. I removed the lifter, and then got a straight shot at the valve. It took several whacks, but finally the valve came out, along with the guide. The valve is frozen in that guide. The valve stem is bent, but I don't know if I might have bent it when I removed it. Now I can find a machine shop, and get the block checked out.
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| tommyleea | -- 08-04-2016 @ 8:23 AM |
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Is there a specific thing or area to look at concerning the stuck valve? Like the 5 main reasons for a stuck valve in the flathead are.....
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