| len47merc | -- 01-11-2016 @ 8:46 AM |
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Just curious what concentration level of antifreeze you all in relatively temperate climates recommend and/or use in your flatheads - standard 50/50, 60/40, 70/30 (water/AF), etc.. As well what are your thoughts and considerations in your recommendations and what you use? Knowing straight distilled water is the best coolant possible (with water wetters possibly increasingly so), when bringing the '47 back to life I installed only the minimum amount of AF necessary to address the coldest conditions the car may possibly (and most likely) experience here in NC. Was doing some work on a racing cooling application my son was working on and it got me to thinking about checking the current concentration level in the '47 given temps at night are now beginning to approach the coldest of the year (usually high teens to low 20s) and found the mixture to still be in the ~67/33 range as originally installed (~0 degrees freezing point protection). Statistically it is rare for us to see single digits or below zero here in central NC and the coldest temp I've ever seen in my 55 years here is 9 below. Can count on one hand the number of below zero days in this period. Car is kept in an attached garage. Had not looked at this since the summer of 2014. Given the car is driven routinely in the summer, sometimes in 95-100 degree temps and performs well in those conditions (coolant runs 190-195 degrees throughout the rpm range in the summer, both short and long runs) I'm a bit reluctant to change but thought it would be a good idea to get some input from you all. Thanks - Steve This message was edited by len47merc on 1-11-16 @ 8:57 AM
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| cliftford | -- 01-11-2016 @ 9:09 AM |
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In our part of the country [WA state] we usually use a 50/50 mixture which will give you protection to -34 degrees. This info. should be on the label of your antifreeze container.
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| len47merc | -- 01-11-2016 @ 9:18 AM |
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Thanks cliftford - I am aware of AF concentration charts and what temps equate to each level of concentration. More interested here in whether anyone uses levels other than the 50/50 standard and what your/their thoughts are in doing so. For instance, I originally installed the 67/33 mix to provide better, more effective cooling in the summer months. Whether there is a flathead-specific reason (e.g., lubrication, etc.) beyond freeze point protection to run higher or lower concentration levels than I am currently is what I am interested in hearing. Thanks again - Steve This message was edited by len47merc on 1-11-16 @ 9:18 AM
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| ken ct. | -- 01-11-2016 @ 9:31 AM |
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Steve , I would just add another quart of straight anti-freeze (not 50/50) to the rad and just forget about. OMO. ken ct.
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| len47merc | -- 01-11-2016 @ 10:06 AM |
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Let me be more clear. Assuming freeze-up is of no concern at all and can be guaranteed not to happen, and assuming a rust inhibitor is used, what reasons are there - if any - to not run any antifreeze at all (only distilled water + rust inhibitor) to achieve maximum cooling effectiveness/efficiency? Or conversely, do our flatheads need - make that REQUIRE - a 50/50 mix for mechanical and/or effectiveness reasons? Does anyone in the south or southwest run straight distilled and if so what problems, if any, may you have run in to doing so? Does anyone run different concentrations in the winter versus summer and if so why, what conclusions did you make from doing so and what problems might you have run in to in the process? Or in the end am I just splitting hairs here, that the difference between pure distilled and an AF mix too infinitesimal to be of value and this is not a discussion worth having? Steve This message was edited by len47merc on 1-11-16 @ 10:26 AM
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| cliftford | -- 01-11-2016 @ 11:23 AM |
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Steve, back in the day {the 50s] Nearly every one ran straight water or water plus rust inhibitor in the summer and antifreeze in the winter. I don't remember that it made much difference in operating temp.
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| Old Henry | -- 01-11-2016 @ 11:27 AM |
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I've tried and experimented with all options. For a few years I switched coolant twice a year between no antifreeze in the summer and 50-50 mix in the winter. That got old and I learned from some research that the engine needed some of the anti-corrosive additives of antifreeze all year 'round so I quit that and went to standard 50-50 mix year round. Then, after some overheating problems I did some more research and, after learning that water cools better than antifreeze and the propylene glycol antifreeze cools better than ethylene glycol antifreeze does, I ended up doing exactly what you are already doing - two gallons of propylene glycol with three gallons of distilled water and a couple of bottles of hy-per lube coolant (like Water Wetter but better). That protects the engine down to 0°, which is colder than my car ever sits in (it's kept in an insulated garage and only hits those lows outside of motels on winter road trips), and maximizes the cooling power of the water by maximizing its volume in the mix. Seems to work great for me and should for you too. This message was edited by Old Henry on 1-11-16 @ 11:28 AM
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| len47merc | -- 01-11-2016 @ 12:27 PM |
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Thanks cliftford & Old Henry. Old Henry - similar to you my attached garage is also insulated (doors as well) so the car rarely sees below 50 degrees even with outside temps in the teens. Great experience and information you shared. I know you have taken your (from memory) '46 on long tours out west including Pikes Peak climbs so you've got quite the data set to speak from. Two more questions for you if you don't mind and then I believe I'm done: 1) Why did you switch to propylene glycol (performance or environmental/toxicity) and if for performance what improvement if any, did you see over ethylene glycol? 2) Did you make any observations or have any personal data/experience that evidences any improvement in performance associated with the hy-per lube and if so what were those results? I'd considered running the hy-per lube previously but had no one who had personally vetted and validated the claims made by the product. Be very interesting to know if you found even a 5 or 10 degree improvement, much less the 20 degree claim made by the product. Thanks again guys - Steve
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| Old Henry | -- 01-11-2016 @ 1:01 PM |
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Here is the study comparing the two types of antifreeze that you can review and decide for yourself which to use: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/ethylene-propylene-glycol-d_904.html Here is a great study comparing 4 different coolant additives for you to review and see which one best fits your kind of driving: http://www.superstreetonline.com/how-to/engine/0703-turp-cooling-system-additives/
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| len47merc | -- 01-11-2016 @ 1:35 PM |
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Thanks Old Henry - good studies. Had seen the propylene vs ethylene glycol study before but not the additive. Greatly appreciate it - Steve
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| TomO | -- 01-12-2016 @ 6:39 AM |
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My Lincoln gets a mixture of Sierra and water that is changed every 3 years. It runs cool and never overheats. It still has the original radiator core. My 40 Merc usually gets changed over to distilled water with rust inhibitor and Water Wetter in the summer. It didn't get the change last summer, due to my busy schedule. It still has the the Sierra mixture put in the fall of 2014. I change it because the Merc does'nt like traffic. The heat gauge needle likes to bury itself on the right side. With water , I can idle in traffic for 15 minutes, with the antifreeze mixture, I get 10 minutes. Tom
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| len47merc | -- 01-13-2016 @ 1:41 PM |
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Tom - thanks. FYI sent you a p.m. Steve
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| len47merc | -- 01-13-2016 @ 3:33 PM |
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Old Henry - FYI sent you a p.m. Steve
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| mrtexas | -- 01-13-2016 @ 7:20 PM |
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https://sites.google.com/site/mrtexascitrus/home/antifreeze
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| len47merc | -- 01-14-2016 @ 5:38 AM |
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Very good chart to have in resource documentation - thanks! Interesting website as well btw - Steve
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| Grant | -- 01-14-2016 @ 6:31 AM |
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Happy New Year to one and all. The late Dick Flynn published a terrific book called Technical Tips which contains dozens of excellent flathead maintenance articles. I believe that copies are still available through his daughter. Above and beyond the better cooling advantage of propylene glycol versus the ethylene-based product, Dick says: "I only use Propylene Glycol antifreeze topping off with distilled water. Propylene Glycol antifreeze won't ruin engine bearings if entered into engine oil. Ethylene Glycol antifreeze will instantly ruin all engine bearings." Sounds ominous. Any thoughts? (quoted from page 47 of FOURTH EDITION - SPRING 1998, copyright 1980 and 1989)
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| len47merc | -- 01-14-2016 @ 6:46 AM |
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Thanks Grant - seems I recall TomO referencing that quite some time back as well. Looking for Sierra locally today - your quoting that jogged the memory and catalyzed my action to make the change! Steve
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| Old Henry | -- 01-14-2016 @ 7:13 AM |
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Prestone now sells propylene glycol antifreeze called LowTox. Probably more readily available than Sierra.
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