| BMora | -- 03-12-2010 @ 1:25 PM |
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1952 Ford F6 with 239 Flathead V8 8RT 7,500 ORIGINAL miles - never rebuilt, rebored etc. Short Story: Engine appears to be seized. Do I rebuild or buy a remanufactured engine? (And any recommendation on sources, perferably, but not limited to Western NY?) Detailed Story: Nice spring weather allowed me to start up my truck, pull her hour of the garage. I performed an oil change (filter and all). The fancy manuvering required to pull the truck out of the garge took about 10 minutes of run time (she barely fits), warming the oil. Once outside, I drained the pan, replaced the filter, and filled her up with fresh lube. I started her up and was going to let her idle through the older gas (but still viable) in the tank. I was tending to her tires (with a noisey air compressor) and sweeping out the garage when, after 20 minutes) I noticed that the engine had stopped. I tried to restart her thinking she choked on some bad gas or something. The starter made a clunk noise. Oh great... bad starter. Well, I took the starter off and it tested good along with the rest of the ignition system. It appears that I lost oil pressure and the engine is seized up. I cannot turn the flywheel or turn the bolt at the pully. I've priced rebuilding my existing engine vs a remanufactured engine and are essentially the same in cost. Can I trust that my engine can be rebuilt? How quickly (in terms of cost) could a rebuild be aborted if found not to be feasable, say the block got cracked or milled by bearings or some other catastrophic issue? Another issue, I don't think I'm qualified mechanically or have the proper tools/equipment to remove the block and replace it.
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| supereal | -- 03-12-2010 @ 3:22 PM |
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The last time we heard that report, the owner had failed to replace the oil pan plug. or tighten it securely, allowing the oil to leak away. It happens more than you would think. It is also possible that the oil pump pickup tube came loose and fell into the pan. We braze them in place, as the swedged fit isn't reliable. You probably won't know why the engine seized, but lack of oil is the biggest prospect. I assume you pulled the dipstick to see if there was oil in the pan. I would pull all the spark plugs and see if you can rotate the engine, and rule out hydrolock from a failed head gasket as the culprit. As to rebuilding. the answer will come when your engine is pulled and taken apart. A sound block with undamaged crankshaft is a candidate for a rebuild. An alternative is to locate a running engine for installation. A competent full rebuild here will cost between $2,400-$4,000, depending on the amount of machine work and need to replace basic parts such as rods, pistons, valves, etc. If the cost is less than that range, I'd have be sure of the experience of the person or place chosen.
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| BMora | -- 03-12-2010 @ 4:40 PM |
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When I have daylight tomorrow, I will pull the plugs and see if I can rotate it by hand. However, I believe it was starved of lubrication. There is a local shop, Engine Assmebly, that will rebuild my engine. Depending upon the condition and what is needed, they placed an upper estimate at $3,500. However, I'm not sure that I didn't crack the block and am considering locating a remanufactured engine. Anyone framiliar with Rebuild Crate Engines: http://www.rebuiltcrateengines.com/auto/ford.html
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| jerry.grayson | -- 03-12-2010 @ 6:04 PM |
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I think that you will find that Rebuilt Crate Engines work with late model stuff and know little or nothing about your engine. I would find someone in your location who is knowledgeable about early Ford V/8's. If you are a member of the EFV/8 club you can look in the roster for someone close and ask them for a reference.
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| BMora | -- 03-12-2010 @ 11:13 PM |
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I fully trust Engine Assembly, the local shop. I have seen their work done for my buddies and their antique vehicles (none of them are Ford V8's though). However, if they do find a cracked block, a rebuilt engine only seems to make sense for me and have found two sources, one being Rebuilt Crate Engines and the other, United Engine Specialists. I called up both RCE and UES. You are right, RCE wasn't uber knowledgeable about the V8, but they were not completely dumb either, but thye contrasted to UES who knew right away that I had an 8RT block and were seemingly very framiliar with the flatheads. However, they have such a work load that if I were to order today, I wouldn't see the engine until it was time to put my vehile asleep for next winter and neither shop is local to me (Western NY State). I am not a member of the EFV/8 club and do not have a roster.
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| 39 Ken | -- 03-13-2010 @ 4:38 AM |
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Get in touch with Bob Snyder, President of the Western NY region of the EFV8 club in Depew, NY. He can give you local names of competent re-builders in the western NY area. His number is 716 668 8 two two 3 (#copied this way to avoid computer harvesting of tel #'s). You should join the club. Great guys in that regional group. Ken
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| BMora | -- 03-13-2010 @ 8:35 AM |
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I'm actually in the Rochester Area. Would Bob still be the person to contact?
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| supereal | -- 03-13-2010 @ 8:38 AM |
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There are two usual reasons for cracked blocks, other than normal expansion and contraction of the cast iron. They are loss of coolant, and freezing. Since your engine started and ran before seizing, I wouldn't expect either cause in your case. If lubrication was lost, the important question is whether the crankshaft was scored, and if any of the pistons damaged a cylinder wall. The rest, rods, inserts, etc, can be replaced. Most engine exchanges require the exchange of a reusable "core", or the outright cost can get steep.
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| TomO | -- 03-13-2010 @ 9:45 AM |
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IMHO have the engine rebuilt rather than buy a re-manufactured engine. This will give you some control over the quality of the work. Some of these shops that re-manufacture the engines do not have people familiar enough with the older engines to do a good job and they may mix parts from different years that may not be compatible. Another reason is that your engine is a low mileage one and has not had its cooling passages deteriorated by years of use. All of the internal components can be readily found to rebuild your engine. There are still some NOS Ford parts available for the 49-53 engines available. I would rather skip one season of driving, than put up with a poorly rebuilt engine. Tom
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| Pat's 52 | -- 03-13-2010 @ 10:47 AM |
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Contact Mark Moriarty, VALVE-EN-BLOCS, 3798 Rt.19, Warsaw, NY 14569 (585)786-2876.E-Mail: mkansas32@yahoo.com. Mark is in Western NY and has been rebuilding Flat Head engines for years. He is a member of the Early Ford V8 Club.
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| 39 Ken | -- 03-13-2010 @ 11:20 AM |
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The region itself is located in the Rochester area. Here's a link to their website. Ken http://www.wnyrg.org/
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| BMora | -- 03-13-2010 @ 6:13 PM |
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Thanks for the contact information! I also like hearing that my block is likely fine. Foirgive me for being naive, I don't understand why it sounds like a crankshaft is not replaceable? Could mine be damaged? Unfortunately, it was another day of cold rain and did not get out to try to rotate the crankshaft with out the plugs in. I will keep you guys posted. You are such a great group of people! How do I join the EFV/8 club? This message was edited by BMora on 3-13-10 @ 6:20 PM
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| 39 Ken | -- 03-14-2010 @ 7:41 AM |
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To join the national, go to the Home page on this site. Look on the menu to the left and click on the membership link. Or, you can click on this link and it will take you directly there. https://secure.cornerstonereg.com/efv8/index.htm Then join your local region in Rochester by going to their website. Welcome to the best Ford club going. Ken
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| supereal | -- 03-14-2010 @ 9:33 AM |
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The crankshaft is replaceable, but if it is scored deeply from a lack of lubrication, and not a candidate for repair, it is more cost effective to find a whole engine for rebuilding. We grind cranks in our shop, and very old ones are usually already undersize, and don't leave enough material to use available oversize bearing inserts. As earlier said, there is no way to know how much damage you have without a full disassembly of the engine. Labor for that usually runs in the 300-500 dollar range. If an engine is seized, you may not want to invest in the cost to find out whether it is usable.
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| BMora | -- 03-15-2010 @ 6:52 PM |
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Just as I suspected, the removal of the spark plugs did not allow me to rotate the crank shaft. I have reached out to Mark and awaiting his response.
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 03-17-2010 @ 8:49 AM |
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When you drained the oil did any antifeeze come out,sounds like to me that the oil pump failed or antfreeze dripped into the oil pan over time,causing your problem, seizing the engine,pull the oil pan and pull a rod bearings out and check 1 at a time, and also the main bearing,and does the oil have a burnt smell? if one of the rods is the problem or a main bearing the metal might be dry and burnt oil on the metal from the heat, a quick look will tell might tell you were the problem lies. if it is antifreeze you will have the engine magnafluxed the block to see if it is cracked on the inside, my 3 cents 37RAGTOPMAN
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