| 40headaches | -- 10-09-2015 @ 11:41 AM |
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I have a 40Ford 85hp flathead.6volt system, Plugs are good and get a spark when held to motor. Plenty of gas gets to the carb. I replaced the coil brush. Orig. was chipped. Turns over but does not start. I'm open to any ideas. My next step is to get new coil and inner distributor caps. Is it possible to check the points w/ out removing the distributor? Mighty small hole when coil is off.
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| MG | -- 10-09-2015 @ 12:18 PM |
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Sounds as though you motor/engine has very low compression.... Do a compression check and if it's low, pour a little oil into each spark plug hole to raise the compression.... This message was edited by MG on 10-9-15 @ 12:20 PM
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| 40headaches | -- 10-09-2015 @ 12:50 PM |
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What would a good and bad compression number be? Will it be critical that I cannot get the engine up to operating temp. prior to compression check. Hence unable to start it. Am I understanding correctly that there is not a 40 Ford manual available. But one is in the works.
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| MG | -- 10-09-2015 @ 1:24 PM |
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Given that you cannot start the engine, you have no other option to take a compression reading other than with the engine cold. Ideally, your want to see compression readings above 90 lbs. when cold.... When was the last time this engine you have started/run??? This message was edited by MG on 10-9-15 @ 1:30 PM
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| 40headaches | -- 10-09-2015 @ 1:38 PM |
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It ran the day I got it. Sept. 30th. 2015. no more than I got it home the problem started. Always taking more time to start. Kept turning over. Drove it Sunday but had it turning over for minutes to get it to fire up. The motor almost fired up on a few tries but failed. Now it just won't at all. Did I burn up the points?
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| carcrazy | -- 10-09-2015 @ 1:41 PM |
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An easy check to see if you have a functioning ignition system is to spray some starting fluid into the air cleaner/carburetor opening before trying to start the engine. If the engine does not fire and try to run with the starting fluid, your ignition system is not operational.
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| 40headaches | -- 10-09-2015 @ 1:43 PM |
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Is there a certain dimension that the coil brush should be set to protrude from its little home? I did replace the coils condenser.
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| MG | -- 10-09-2015 @ 1:54 PM |
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40headaches said: "Plugs are good and get a spark when held to motor." That said, the coil brush is doing its job. Is the spark you mention strong? That is, is it at least a 1/4 inch bright blue spark?
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| 40headaches | -- 10-09-2015 @ 2:16 PM |
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Not a strong spark at all on 3 of 3 plugs I checked. Also tried the starting fluid test. It wanted to fire but it was like a miss and wound down. If I remove the distributor to get a visual on the points I should have a replacement gasket on hand correct? And will there be any fluid that will be coming out of the motor. I am ignorant w/ motor common sense but that I know. I do appreciate the help I can get on this site.
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| MG | -- 10-09-2015 @ 2:32 PM |
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I'd replace the coil first before removing the distributor. Do you have access to a known good working coil?....
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| 40headaches | -- 10-09-2015 @ 3:28 PM |
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Early Ford V8 Sales, or Drakes As far as borrowing someone's I would feel out of line to ask. Just joined my regional group and have not meet anyone yet.
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| MG | -- 10-09-2015 @ 3:43 PM |
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Your EFV8 Regional Group is an invaluable source for help. Post your RG number here and I'm sure that someone from that group will read your post and help you. If not, I can look up you RG in the Club's Roster and provide you with names and phone numbers.... This message was edited by MG on 10-9-15 @ 3:44 PM
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| 40headaches | -- 10-09-2015 @ 3:50 PM |
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National Capital Regional Group #36. I have a rooster w/ names and numbers but too start calling people at random would be weird for me.
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| trjford8 | -- 10-09-2015 @ 5:32 PM |
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Call the president of the group and explain the problem. The Prez is Cecil Polan and he's a great guy. Just saw Cecil on the Black Hills tour. He's a guy who is always willing to help. I know several members in that group and all are great guys and ladies.
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| VT/JeffH | -- 10-11-2015 @ 2:42 PM |
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Hi Everyone, 40headaches, I'm in RG36. I'll PM you my phone number. A couple of our members have '40's, including Cecil! -VT/JeffH
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| 40headaches | -- 10-30-2015 @ 5:30 AM |
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So I sent my distributor and coil out for rebuilding. Reinstalled. Motor instantly wanted to start but I failed on the first try. This is happening now on a daily basis. If I can't get it on the first shot it will turn and turn and turn before starting. My procedure is ( two pumps on gas pedal, choke full out, flip up ignition switch and push button. I have enough spark to start a forest fire from the plugs. But these spark plug wires are just sitting on the plugs no matter how I try to make the metal tube a bit smaller. It does start better when warm. Would anyone have some ideas now?
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| TomO | -- 10-30-2015 @ 6:41 AM |
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Try starting you car by just pulling out the choke and not pumping the gas. You may be flooding the engine by pumping the pedal twice. You may have to adjust how far you pull the choke, some engines like a little choke and others need a full choke. Tom
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| 40headaches | -- 10-30-2015 @ 3:07 PM |
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Well TomO, you hit the nail. No pumps choke 1/2 out does work well. Drove around town toady and it did well. Sometimes just a touch of gas. Thank you!
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| MG | -- 10-30-2015 @ 4:45 PM |
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40headaches - Thanks for getting back to us with your 'fix' on this - I wish more people would follow your good example and follow-up. I'm happy for you that you were successful in resolving you starting problems....
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| TomO | -- 10-31-2015 @ 9:03 AM |
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I am glad that you are able to start and drive your 1940 Ford. The information in your last post provided the solution. It pays to provide as much information as you can when you have a problem. Sometime that fix is just a change in the way that you are doing things, as it was in this case. I like to take a pair of diagonal cutters and just slightly compress the spark plug wire connectors at the point where the original detent is to give a firmer connection the plug. The connectors then go on with a click. Tom
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| 40headaches | -- 11-02-2015 @ 12:01 PM |
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I tried this and will try again. But while driving we hit a bump and one wire came off and was sparking against the manifold. I am more into correcting this by a rubber boot type enclosure. I have had no luck in finding one that's is easy on the eyes. How are the ends tied into the distributor cap inner housing? Incase I need to replace the wires.
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| trjford8 | -- 11-02-2015 @ 1:46 PM |
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They just plug into the inner cap
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| 40headaches | -- 01-05-2016 @ 2:39 PM |
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update on starting. Starting issue was resolved so I thought and was able to drive a bit. Now noticing an acceleration issue decreasing in speed up a hill. New 94 Denis C. carburetor fixed that instantly. Now the starting issue comes back.In late Nov. it would start as a cold engine just fine. Run it down the street in a 10min. drive to church. Get out from church 1hr or so. Back to sq. one won't start but would just turn over and over. A fellow NCRG36 member helped to find that both wires on resistor terminals were on the same terminal sending full 6.7V to coil. We put one red wire on one term. and the red w/ blk on sec.term. I cleaned the ign. block contacts and all was flat and clean before reassembling. Again will not start. But am worried about getting the 6.7V on the coil terminal as its trying to start I am there taking the reading of 6.7 So I am getting a new NAPPA condenser new RGK plugs and trying to find a new resistor. I can use help w/ that one. Any words of wisdom could not hurt. And I have not done a compression test yet. I guess that should be in the line up.
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| ken ct. | -- 01-05-2016 @ 4:06 PM |
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You say you replaced the coil brush an spring.Did you reinstall the coil properly that is coil replaced straight down very slightly with the top of coil slightly to the rear. Your coil spring could have missed the cup and is lodged behind the cup and would create a massive ground and will never start. You must be very careful when replacing a coil on the car. ken ct.
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| TomO | -- 01-06-2016 @ 8:06 AM |
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After you replace the condenser, check your spark again. The full 6 volts to the coil may have damaged it. In order to start and run an engine need fuel in the right mixture, compression and a spark at the correct time. Your distributor should be in time, if the re-builder was Skip Haney. When it will not start, check the spark for a nice strong spark. If you have good spark, remove a spark plug from the second cylinder on the right bank and check for a wet condition. If the plug is wet from gas, your engine is flooded. To start a flooded engine, push the choke so it is open and floor the gas pedal. Tom
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| 40headaches | -- 01-06-2016 @ 2:53 PM |
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Thanks Ken and Tom. I should be able to get to the car this weekend. Coil was rebuilt by Haney, distributor by Cliff Green.
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| TomO | -- 01-07-2016 @ 7:02 AM |
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Your distributor is probably in time then. The only reason that it would be out of time is if someone tried to adjust the points after Cliff set them. Even a Skip Haney rebuilt coil can be damaged by the incorrect voltage. Good Luck Tom
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| brooks | -- 01-09-2016 @ 2:28 PM |
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Try bypassing the resister and see if it will crank with 6 volts to the coil. I see where you al ready had 6 volts to the coil I would say your coil is damage. Kindest Regards, Brooks This message was edited by brooks on 1-9-16 @ 2:39 PM
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| shogun1940 | -- 01-16-2016 @ 6:31 PM |
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When you picked up the car,on the way home did you fill it up with gas,,could it have water in it? Will it start on ether ?
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| 40headaches | -- 01-19-2016 @ 5:33 AM |
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No water in gas. Dropped tank, cleaned and blew out lines. So! New plugs, condenser, using an original resister block, checked coil brush was good to go. BUT! I did remove all grounding cables and sand away all paint, and super cleaned cable ends. So since the last time it was cranked over ( 3 weeks+) Choke in 100% no gas pedal pumps and it Started right up. Had 3.7 V. @ coil. Now I also adjusted the clutch pedal to have the 1" of play. Fellow club member suggested the rumble /roaring vibration noise while crossing the 30-40mph speed was due to lack of free play. They thought it was from the pressure plate area. Again I saw that this has been played w/ before. But now I had that rumble... starting at 25mph after my tweak. But always once at 50 it sounded very happy. Took family out after trial run was successful. 2 miles from home something sounded and felt like it just blew out the bottom of the car at a hill climb at 25mph. Horrible shaking. Nothing dripping or hanging below. Got it home via a tow up on stands, hard to start but when it did would not idle worth a darn. Shaking before I could even try 1st gear.Common sense tells me not the trans, but inside the motor. There was a tapping noise prior to the 30min. trip that usually went away w/ a hot motor. Ordered the Ford flathead v8 builders handbook. Will review before I remove one bolt. Now I understand buying w/ no clear history will be a huge gamble. I'm not distressed, just anxious to really enjoying the car on the road and not on jack stands. This message was edited by 40headaches on 1-19-16 @ 5:54 AM
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| TomO | -- 01-19-2016 @ 7:52 AM |
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40headahces, As TRJFord8, said, contact Cecil Polan for help on getting your Ford running. He should be able to put you in contact with someone close to your home to help you resolve your problems. You will probably have to do: a compression check, with all plugs removed and the throttle wide open. Isolate the source of the noise before doing any disassembly. Do not disassemble the motor until you are sure that the problem is in the motor. I would like to see you be able to change your sign on to"happy40owner" Tom
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| 40headaches | -- 01-19-2016 @ 8:33 AM |
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Already had a letter sent out to my NCRG group and have been getting rebuild shop referrals. The motor is inoperable right now. I do not feel good starting it for 5 seconds let alone running wide open for a compression check. Nothing shot out from the motor yet and I wish to keep it that way. My mind is made up. Total engine and trans. rebuild is needed to make me feel good. My wife enjoys the car and I wish to take those 500 mile tours some day w/ no fear. My post name was created when I joined because my Dads car he gave me is here to do a complete restore job. Not knowing much to make me feel good to start I found the same model year in a fordor after I joined which is what we've been talking about to use as a set of instructions. And to enjoy and get my motivation up to pare. Unfortunately spending money on this one delays the second. So 40headaches is more about the pile of parts and figuring out what went where and how more than frustration and aggravation. Heck I was proud to get the starting issue resolved. This message was edited by 40headaches on 1-19-16 @ 8:34 AM
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| TomO | -- 01-20-2016 @ 8:09 AM |
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My suggestions for doing a compression check and isolating the noise were just to save you some money and frustration. So many times complete rebuilds are done when they are not needed and the problems are still there. Other times a rebuild is needed and people keep driving the car and destroying the motor. I like to know the cause of the problem before I start replacing parts and paying for services that I might not need. As a novice to the Early Ford V-8 world, you have done a good job of getting your car running, but it needs the help of an experienced Ford V-8 restorer to isolate and direct the repairs. It is at a point where online help is not good enough. Tom
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