| LarryK | -- 07-03-2015 @ 8:39 AM |
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I installed a rebuilt clutch and pressure plate assembly from Fort Wayne Clutch in my '39 Deluxe Tudor this past winter. I am getting clutch chatter after the car has been driven 15-20 miles. It is sometimes difficult to control. It only happens when the car is warmed up and hot and when starting out in first gear. When starting cold after the car has been sitting a day or two, the clutch action is very smooth - no chatter, no slipping. No problems on the road and in shifting from first to second and second to third. Pedal free play is about one inch. The transmission was also rebuilt during the winter. The transmission shifts smoothly. The throwout bearing was replaced. The clutch release shaft bushings were not replaced but there was no noticeable wear in these. The pilot bearing was not replaced. It is a sealed bearing, not a bushing, and is in good condition. Any insights on what may be causing this and how it may be corrected would be greatly appreciated. It is curious that the chatter only occurs after the car is warmed and hot. Thanks, Larry Larry
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| ford38v8 | -- 07-03-2015 @ 10:17 AM |
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Larry, Loose or worn motor & transmission mounts can cause clutch chatter. They can be cold and stiff initially, perhaps an answer to the delayed chatter? I would contact Ft Wayne with your problem, this is right up their alley. Alan
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| Old Henry | -- 07-03-2015 @ 12:22 PM |
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It might have made a difference to have your flywheel resurfaced and trued flat. But, I gotta say, I did everything you did some months ago on my 47 plus resurfaced the flywheel, new motor and transmission mounts, and even replaced the crankshaft to get rid of 2 thousandths run out. I still had as bad of chatter as ever after 50 miles worse when warmed up just like you have. I'm convinced that there is a design flaw inherent in the system that, in too many instances, can not be fixed and we just "get used to it" and "learn to live with it." That's what I've done. This message was edited by Old Henry on 7-3-15 @ 12:23 PM
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| Kenneth M. | -- 07-03-2015 @ 2:21 PM |
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Also check to see if you got a brake dragging. That will cause brake chatter. That happen to me. I had to change the Master Cylinder then the chatter went away. Kenneth M. Stewart
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| 40 Coupe | -- 07-04-2015 @ 6:11 AM |
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Are the engine radius rods (anti-chatter) connected and tight, engine and frame side? Check the rear spring mounting nuts to the U-bolts and make sure they are also tight. are the nuts to the U-joint cover tight? Yes the rubber motor mounts in good shape? are the nuts holding the engine to the motor mounts tight? is the bolt through the front motor mounts tight? Does the clutch plate have the springs on it's face? Does the engine seem to lose a bit of oil from the hole below the clutch in the oil pan? Just some possible problem areas to check
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| supereal | -- 07-04-2015 @ 3:11 PM |
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Having clutch chatter even after a recent replacement of the disk and pressure plate isn't that rare. The clutch facing was originally asbestos, which was banned for health reasons, and replaced with an "organic" substance. Now, when the clutch is warmed up, this material is "grabby". That is why it happens mostly after the vehicle is run, but less after it cools. Starting off in second gear will minimize the problem, as will rapid release of the clutch pedal.
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| LarryK | -- 07-05-2015 @ 4:40 AM |
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Thanks to everyone who responded. This is a great forum and I really appreciate the knowledge and experience exhibited here. I checked most of items mentioned including the engine radius rods. The engine mounts and transmission mounts are new and the nuts tight, but I am never certain how tight is tight enough. For now, I am going to live with this condition. I am greatly relieved that I don't have a unique problem. Larry
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| ford38v8 | -- 07-05-2015 @ 8:18 AM |
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Larry, The mounts should be tightened until the rubber just begins to deform. Tighter than that will cause early failure. Alan
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| TomO | -- 07-05-2015 @ 9:19 AM |
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Larry, The technique that I have found to reduce clutch chatter is when starting out in first, start to engage the clutch while the engine is idling, as soon as you feel it start to engage, press on the gas pedal and release the clutch pedal. It helps to have the idle set between 450-550 rpms. anything faster than that will aggravate the chatter. To set the idle, drive the car until the engine is at operating temperatures. Then adjust the idle as slow as you can keep it running. Turn in both idle mixture screws 1/8 of a turn at a time. If the engine slows down, turn them out 1/8 of a turn at a time, until the engine is idling at its best. Tom
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| 51f1 | -- 07-08-2015 @ 2:33 PM |
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This brings a story to mind that a college professor related to me many years ago: There was this mountain family that had fallen on hard times. They were starving to death. So Pa decided to visit some of their neighbors to see if they could give them some food. As he went down the mountain, he stopped at each house. He got the same answer everywhere he went. No one had any food. They were all starving to death. When he got back home he called his family together and told them that he hadn't been able to get any food from their neighbors. "But we aren't so bad off. Everyone else is starving to death too." I guess that, since most everyone has this clutch chatter problem, it's ok? Richard
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| RAK402 | -- 07-12-2015 @ 9:03 PM |
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I have had my 1940 Sedan for about 40 years now. When I got it, the clutch was extremely rough (it became rougher still after I learned to drive stick shift with it). It has had several clutches in the intervening decades. On those occasions when I experienced clutch chatter, it was always that oil had contaminated the disc. Replacing the disc eliminated the issue.
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| TNation | -- 08-31-2015 @ 4:51 PM |
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I too have had to deal with clutch chatter. I had the engine in my '36 tudor rebuilt. The rebuilder re-surfaced the flywheel for me and I installed a new clutch. Much to my disappointment I had terrible clutch chatter. It shook the whole car. I pulled the transmission and intalled another new clutch and pressure plate. Same clutch chatter. I don't remember who, but someone put me in touch with David Egelston, Ph (816) 842-7398. He provided me with a clutch and pressure plate - absolutely no chatter.
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| supereal | -- 08-31-2015 @ 5:04 PM |
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Before you adjust your clutch, be sure that the clutch return spring is intact and pulling the clutch pedal all the way back to the floorboard when released. Otherwise, the free play setting will be incorrect. If you are having trouble getting smooth shifts, or the gears grind when you place the shift into first gear when stopped, it is likely your idle speed is too high. Using 140 weight in the transmission will also help, as the higher viscosity slows the cluster gear enough to allow the synchronizers to work. Some chatter is normal, but properly adjusting the clutch will keep it tolerable.
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| fordv8j | -- 09-01-2015 @ 5:32 PM |
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My 38 coupe had a bad clutch chatter..I checked it today,the bolts are shoulder bolts..thus they tighten up against the mounts,all transmission and engine mount bolts were tight..but the lower rubbers were loose (wear and fatigue),took the metal washer off the rubber bushing,placed a 3/16 thick hard rubber washer between the bushing and the washer..this is on the lower end of the mount bolt..tightened all 4 bolts..this eliminated 90% of my chatter
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| fordv8j | -- 09-02-2015 @ 6:39 AM |
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Our 38 coupe had clutch chatter,checked transmission and engine mounts the bolts were all tight..these are shoulder bolts and tighten against the mounts,so you shouldn't be able to over tighten them...the lower bushings were loose..I took the metal washer off the bushing..installed a hard rubber washer about 3/16'' thick between the bushing and the washer..did this on tfour mounts,tightened all against the shoulder...this eliminated 90% of my chatter..new lower bushings would probably do it..MACS has them
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| carcrazy | -- 09-02-2015 @ 10:21 AM |
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Another item to check that can contribute to "clutch chatter" with cars that have a torque tube driveline is loose rear shock mounts.
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| LarryK | -- 09-04-2015 @ 10:47 AM |
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Well, there has been a lot of chatter (sorry) on this topic. I have been practicing Tom O's technique and it works well when I execute it properly. I am going to re-check the engine and transmission mounts this winter. After installing new mounts front and rear last year and driving the car a few hundred miles, I found the lower rubber cushions on the fronts to be loose, similar to the problem fordv8j describes. I don't think there should be metal to metal contact between the large flat washer that sits on the top cushion and the shoulder of the bolt, so I installed a flat washer under the hex head of the bolt where it goes up through the cross member. Now the top and bottom rubber cushions are under compression. That didn't help the chatter problem, however. Larry
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