| flatfoot | -- 03-12-2015 @ 11:01 AM |
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What can cause shimmy? I had the toe in set 0-1/8" But when I did this the shimmy got worse. I was told to check for a bent wheel. Then I was told the tires where too old(1996). In CA can't work on tire over 10 years old. Tire shop would not take them off the rim to check for bent rim. So I guess new tires then check the rim? I guess I'll get new tires. From where I don't know. I guess Coker Any suggestions? (1936 Ford Fordor) I failed to mention that the front shocks are not original. They are modern day tpe. This message was edited by flatfoot on 3-13-15 @ 1:54 PM
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| nelsb01 | -- 03-12-2015 @ 11:52 AM |
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Flatfoot; Find that interesting that a tire shop would not at least dis-mount the tire to check the rim. At least for a possible sale of new tires. But....... Not trying to sound like a commercial for Coker, I have their 600x16 black walls on my car and have 18000 miles in 18 years. The problem with tires and age is dependant on how much time they are in the sun. Your daily driver is exposed to the sun more than your classic -- think about that for a minute. The tire vs. age issue was some lawyer's claim to fame. I asked the Coker reps at Hershey about my black wall tires 3 years ago and he IMMEDIATELY said I needed new tires. Does that sound like salesmanship or liability??? You make the call. Back to your original topic - shimmy. That could be caused by bent rim, out of round tire, front end alignment, or a tire not being balanced. I would first say your tires maybe the cause (California has too much nice weather and sunshine), so, since you want to move forward, get new tires and then at least that part of the equation has been eliminated.
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| CharlieStephens | -- 03-12-2015 @ 12:34 PM |
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Why can't you spin the wheel and tire assembly and check for run out and out of round? Of course it would be "nice" to have the tires off but this should give you the information you want. Have you considered in investing in a set of tire irons.? The old tires are not that hard to work with. One final thought, if you check with the tire on the rim you will also check to see if the tire is properly made. Charlie Stephens This message was edited by CharlieStephens on 3-12-15 @ 4:44 PM
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| jackb | -- 03-12-2015 @ 1:56 PM |
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I had to find a shop to balance the tires, wheels and brake-drums while on the car. Some older shops still use this method. The raise one at a time and spin it and check it with a strobe. This is the only way i could get my car to run smooth with no shimmy. The main reason is that the brake drums are out of balance. The new ones I got from Wheel Vintiques were not balanced. The only drawback is you have to mark the wheel if you take it off so that it goes back on the lugs the way it came off. My '40 has been running perfect for almost 11 yrs on the Dunlop Radials I bought and it has over 19,000 miles showing no wear or cracks.
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| trjford8 | -- 03-12-2015 @ 6:36 PM |
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Have you checked all the usual places for excessive wear? Kingpins, tie rod ends, drag link ends, excessive play in the steering box and the rubber ball on the wishbone. All this should be checked. If your tires are from 1996 and the car sits a lot, you most likely have flat spots in those old tires.
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| fla48 | -- 03-12-2015 @ 6:36 PM |
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I may be missing something here, but have you checked the king pins, tie rod ends, etc?
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| len47merc | -- 03-12-2015 @ 6:41 PM |
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flatfoot - did the car always have a bit of shimmy and now it is worse? Or did it just start? Does the shimmy show itself at all speeds or only at or above certain speeds? Have you had anyone drive behind and beside you in another vehicle and observe each wheel at speed when the shimmy is apparent to determine which wheel or wheels are the problem(s)? Do you feel the shimmy in the steering wheel or in your 'rear'/seat? Or both? How long has the car sat without being driven? Are your current tires radials or bias plies? Steve This message was edited by len47merc on 3-12-15 @ 6:48 PM
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| 42wagon | -- 03-13-2015 @ 3:25 AM |
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If I was to be asked for the cause of a shimmy in the front end I would immediately suggest loose or worn king pins and tie rod ends. Back in the day that was the prime suspect for a shimmy. If those are absolutely tight only then I would move on to the tires and wheels.
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| flatfoot | -- 03-13-2015 @ 1:52 PM |
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Len, thank you for your response. I had a small shimmy when I hit a little bump in the road; But now it is a large shimmy. I do have modern day front shocks. I might go back to the original front shocks. The rears are original. I feel the shimmy in the steering wheel big time. Tires are bias ply. Good tread. Mfgred 1996, Sears Allstate. The car sat for about 3 1/2 years w/o being driven. However, it runs really well. The first time I drive it it only shimmied if I hit a small bump and then would smooth at about 35 mph (speedo works good). Now it starts to shimmy at about 20+mph and does not smooth out until about 45-50 mph. I have not had anyone follow me to check the wheels if they wobble.
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| flatfoot | -- 03-13-2015 @ 1:55 PM |
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I did check the King pins, but they are in good shape. They will need to be fixed in a year or two, though.
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| flatfoot | -- 03-13-2015 @ 1:57 PM |
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That should have been done by the shop, I agree. I did spin them and did not notice anything out of order in this realm. Thanks for your response.
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| flatfoot | -- 03-13-2015 @ 1:59 PM |
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Thanks for your reply. I have checked all these areas and they are within specs. I will need to replace maybe in a couple years.
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| flatfoot | -- 03-13-2015 @ 2:02 PM |
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Hey Jack, thank you for your response. I have found a shop that will do the balance with wheels on the car. This is what I am going to have done next.
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| len47merc | -- 03-13-2015 @ 3:48 PM |
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With the assumptions your front end is 'tight' and is in sound running order, the vibration is definitely felt in the steering wheel, the vibration is somewhat speed related, the car sat for 3 1/2 years (assumed with the full weight of the car on the tires) without being driven and the tires are bias plies - it is a good bet your problem is tire related. It is a bit odd though that the shimmy worsened with a toe-in adjustment. Given the vibration is felt at such a low speed (20 mph) and disappears at 45 mph (the speed balance issues usually become apparent) it is unlikely it is a balance issue. I'd strongly suspect the tires would fail road-force testing after sitting for so long without being driven and likely have a hardened area of the tread. Many of us have Coker bias plies on our cars - I do and like the look and original ride but it took some work to get to a smooth result. The manufacturing process for their bias plies unfortunately produces a bit more variance than one would like for a driver, especially in terms of tread density/road force/runout (roundness) results. It took several sets and/or individual tires from them before 4 were finally obtained that ran smooth throughout the speed range. Even then, two of the tires require much more weight than is ideal to achieve proper balance. Note I chased steering/front end, suspension and shock issues as well as having all 4 tires/wheels balanced on the car (with the hubs & drums) - all to the nth degree - before realizing the new tires, which were erroneously assumed to be above reproach as they were new, were the culprit as the source of the wheel 'hop'. In the end I am happy with their product and they supported the process throughout but it took some doing to get there. Having someone ride beside and/or behind your vehicle when the 'shimmy' is apparent (at the lower speeds you have referenced) can give you more insight into the source of your problem. If your front wheels are vibrating right and left you may wish to not only focus on your tires but also pursue steering and front suspension component details further. If they are only hopping up and down it's a strong bet you need a new pair, 'er, set of shoes. You may be surprised to find your rear tires are hopping a bit as well and are adding to the 'shimmy' sensation. Hope this helps - best of results to you in your investigation and potential purchase. Steve This message was edited by len47merc on 3-13-15 @ 4:32 PM
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| TomO | -- 03-14-2015 @ 6:14 AM |
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From your description, it sounds like worn parts are causing your shimmy. Balance problems and bent rim problems, usually show up at a certain speed, without any external forces. I like to jack up one front wheel at a time, and grab the top and bottom and try to move the wheel.If there is any movement in the vertical plane, that could cause the shimmy. If there is no movement in the vertical plane, grab the front and back of the wheel and try to move it. If there is any movement in this direction, it could cause your shimmy. Tom
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| jackb | -- 03-14-2015 @ 1:45 PM |
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A red flag went up when you stated that your shimmy was at low speed. When that was happening to my car it didn't start until about 62mph or so, then when I had my neighbor follow me it looked like four basketballs dribbling down the highway. At that slow speed I'm not sure that balance alone is your problem. I do think you should let that shop look at your car and by spinning the wheels they might just tell you to get a new set of tires before they balance on the car. When I had this balancing done in '04 I was charged $50 for all four wheels. Good luck and let us know what the problem was when you find out. I do have 'tube shocks' on my forty and they work great.
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