| MTLott | -- 02-10-2010 @ 1:08 PM |
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Even though it annoys some of you, here's a current discussion going on over on the Fordbarn MODEL A forum. I'm sure there are some guys who lurk through this site and would like accurate information. http://www.fordbarn.com/aforum/messages3/535014.html
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| Stroker | -- 02-10-2010 @ 3:10 PM |
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MT: Yeah, I think many of us "lurk" on Fordbarn. I'ts another resource, and most of us are interested in cutting-edge information. I think the problem here, is that we are not "experts". We are club members, who do our best to help each other. I'm only speaking for myself here, but my background was growing up with early Fords. At home, we had model A's, 2-35 trucks, a 36-three window, 38 Wagon, 40 Zephyr, 40-41 & 42 trucks,51 pickup,51 convertible, 2-Towt wind machines with 59A motors. Many of us are contributing information based on personal experience (myself included). This is valuable, as no matter what one gleans from the internet, there is always something that "first-person" experience can contribute. I have built record-setting drag motors, set 4 Land-Speed records at Bonneville, plus 2 at El Mirage Dry Lake in California. No, we don't have all the answers, and yes, we do get "annoyed" sometimes. Just remember that we are all in this boat together, and we are trying to help each other. That's the long, and the short of it. Dan
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| ford38v8 | -- 02-10-2010 @ 5:54 PM |
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Stroker, I agree with you on everything you said, but I'll also give the reason why I don't lurk on the Fordbarn, and I think a lot of guys will agree on this as well: I like the tone on our Forum better. I like the friendship, the helpfulness, the respect for each other. I don't like aggressive name calling put downs and telling each other they don't know from s**t. That may be entertaining, but it isn't helpful when you have a serious question about your car. Alan
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| trjford8 | -- 02-10-2010 @ 8:21 PM |
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I agree with Al that this forum operates a lot differently than Fordbarn. I do go there sometimes and even answer questions,but not often.This forum does show a lot more respect to those who are new to the hobby.People gravitate to forums where they receive the most information. The "peanut gallery" comments posted on the Fordbarn may be entertaining to some,but are not helpful and are sometimes insulting to those who are new to the hobby. Some seem to forget that a "newbie" may have just found their forum and may be asking a question that is important to them. Unfortunately, the same question may have been answered a week or so prior and the newbie catches flak for asking the same question. Each forum has it's own followers/posters and it is good for the hobby. It's nice that there is a seat for every "fanny". I do think that those new to the hobby get more info here than any other forum. I do admit that I am partial to the V-8 Club!
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| MTLott | -- 02-11-2010 @ 4:06 AM |
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Well ... Nobody broke their neck trying to offer information when I asked. None of you in this thread posted. You all stood by and let others insist that a diaphragm clutch was as weird as some piece of a spaceship recovered near Roswell, New Mexico. After I posted what we found upon removing the transmission, none of you commented except for the warnings about using UFO parts on my car. I even took pictures just to post here. I did not post this anywhere, but here. More reports of flying saucers. Nobody posted, "Gosh, that's interesting." I guess I made a mistake in telling one of you that he was BSing when he kept trying to convince me that diaphragm clutches were responsible for crop circles. I was told, "this is not a social networking site where we take time out of our lives just to bond with motorheads." Really? "I like the friendship, the helpfulness, the respect for each other." That's better. You've bonded well with each other. You just don't accept people who are not from your own planet. The truth is that if you read what you guys offered as advice and compare it to the information posted by MODEL A (!) guys about V8 CLUTCHES over on the Fordbarn ... AND compare how well the new information was treated by the forum ... ? Frankly, what are you patting yourselves on the backs about? Now, to keep this thread technical, I'll offer an additional perspective hinted to by the Fordbarn discussion. I live in a city of one million people. For years there has been only one clutch rebuilder. That rebuilder is closing up shop within a week. There will be no rebuilt early V8 clutches in my hometown ... no dropping off and picking up two hours later, faster if you need it in a hurry and want to wait. Diaphragm clutches have been used extensively for the past 40 years ... and are used in virtually ALL cars today. (Note that none of you stepped forward to correct the "misguided" information posted by one of your members.) The best advice is to get familiar with using the design in our cars. I came to this site because I have several early V8 Fords. I needed accurate technical information. So far, most of what I have received has been about "our forum." Seriously, if any of you know the details for installing a diaphragm clutch behind a flathead, I wish you had posted it earlier. "I do think that those new to the hobby get more info here than any other forum." Nope. Not when it come to V8 clutches ... you have to go ask the Model A'ers. (Now, what you're supposed to tell me is that if I don't like YOUR forum, I should leave it and go somewhere else. Incidentally, that was a weather balloon.)
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| 51f1 | -- 02-11-2010 @ 5:34 AM |
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This is just my opinion, but I think that part of the problem in this particular instance is that a lot of members of the EFV8 Club are not technically minded and do look at the Club as a social club. I am more of a technician and not very sociable. Some of my technical questions have been ignored (probably because no one knew the answer), and some of the advice I have gotten was just plain wrong. But I have never been offended by that. There are technical articles in the EFV8 Times that contain information that is obviously just someone's opinion, similar to the old wives tail that we should only use non-detergent oil in our engines. But that's O.K. too. Most of the wrong advice is harmless, and there are still plenty of members that know more about these old cars and trucks than I will ever know. All that aside, this is still the best old car club around, with the best people, the best website and the best publication. And what's wrong with being civil anyway? Richard
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| 4dFordSC | -- 02-11-2010 @ 5:38 AM |
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Time out while I make some more popcorn.
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| MTLott | -- 02-11-2010 @ 6:27 AM |
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"Time out while I make some more popcorn." Welcome back from the HAMB. (Don't ruin this thread by letting anyone know that most of this is supposed to be humorous. I've got them ready to lynch me ... the mean ones. The helpful, friendly, respectful ones just want to tar and feather me. I'm just trying to get a little extra information on clutches, but it's already been suggested that I may not be "civil.")
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 02-11-2010 @ 4:04 PM |
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On the diaphram clutch, as far as old FORDS, I never installed one in a early FORD, so really could not comment on how they work in a early FORDS, DID NOT WANT TO STEER ANYBODY WRONG, I did a few years ago install a diaphram clutch on in a 1964 JEEP C-J5, it is harder to push down and it seems like it is either on or off, and really would like the old type clutch back,Had way better feel to it, Most of the cars that use this type of clutch use a hydraulic clutch system,and I for one did not what would happen if installed in a early FORD,maybe more strain on the linkage ? if you look you still can buy those parts just not at a modern auto parts store,pick a copy of HEMMING'S MOTOR NEWS, just about at any book store,there are many venders supplying original type parts,advertising in there,if you want and like the diaphram clutch, by all means give one a try,and get back to us and let us know how you like it, maybe more V8ERS, will use them,and just maybe people on this site also did not have any experience installing a diaphram clutch and could not comment on it,and lets cool it down, harsh comments are not needed here, WE are just trying to HELP YOU just my 2 cents 37RAGTOPMAN
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| ford38v8 | -- 02-11-2010 @ 10:08 PM |
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MT, Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I only work on cars that I can see the spark plugs on, and the only diaphragms in those old cars are inside the fuel pump. I guess if I tried to answer your question, I'd have told you to keep the fuel pump on top instead of behind the engine, which would honestly have been the extent of my knowledge about automotive diaphragms. Sometimes I answer when I think I know the answer but don't, and I get informed real quick by someone else that does know. When I know I don't know, I know I don't answer. Now you know why I didn't answer your question earlier, and why I didn't jump in to agree that the advice you got wasn't the answer. Now that I think I know the answer, I think I'll continue to keep my diaphragm in my fuel pump where it belongs, thank you. Alan
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| MTLott | -- 02-12-2010 @ 2:43 AM |
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First, thank you both for steering us back on topic. All I ever wanted to do was talk about installing a clutch. ( ... and I'll stray off topic for a second. Sometimes on car forums it's like asking somebody, "What time is it?" and they tell you what kind of watch to build.) I'm familiar enough with clutches and know that installing a diaphragm clutch behind a flathead would have a lot of advantages. And, I'm not here to sell the idea or argue its merits. My guess is that someone reading this thread has installed them, knows the small details, and just isn't sharing. That's OK. There are a couple of links below to click on. They cover the basic operating concept and advantages such as less pedal effort, smoother uniform clamping, lighter weight, etc. Plus, there is the potential of an endless supply of clutches that are even better than the original ones. The Model A guys are already aware of all of this. The one site mentions the LuK clutch which reportedly does not require the "fingers" to be trimmed and will avoid the interference problem we encountered. I'll be making a run over to our local clutch rebuilder today ... maybe the last before they close forever. We used a 10" clutch, and I'm going to make one more attempt to find a 9" match. There are plenty of good reasons to explore this even if it's just to reduce the wrong information and misconceptions. Frequently wrong information is taken as "gospel" ... how long have we been told by some preacher that Eve gave Adam a bite of an apple? Not so. Thank you, again, for sharing my interest. Check out the links. http://www.indiacar.com/infobank/theclutch.htm http://www.luk-as.de/content.luk_as.de/en/luk_as_products/drive_train_parts_aa/clutches_aa/clutch_pressure_plates_aa/clutch_pressure_plates_aa.jsp
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| 35ford | -- 02-15-2010 @ 10:06 AM |
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MT Lott. Thank you for the explaination on the 2 types of clutches. \i copied the descriptions for future reference.
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| EFV-8 Club Forum : | https://www.earlyfordv8.org/forum |
| Topic: | https://www.earlyfordv8.org/forum/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=18&Topic=787 |