| silverchief | -- 08-12-2014 @ 11:11 AM |
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Had my 46 coupe on a lift today to check trans fluid level. Putting a finger inside the side plug I could feel fluid whatsoever. Slowly Pumped in fluid until it started to run out (twice)- BUT could still feel no fluid anywhere by reaching my finger inside the filler hole. What gives? Want to check the fluid level in the differential - but the filler plug is rusted shut and has started to round with people trying to get it out. Not enough threads visible to use liquid wrench. Would heating around the plug with a propane torch help at all? Lastly, I notice that the rubber grommets for the rear spring shackles have totally disintegrated - but I am not sure what I need. Couldn't find anything at C&G. Macs shows rubber " rear spring shackle bushing- four required" at $2.65 a set. But Little Dearborn lists "Shackle kit-Rear-rubber" at $28.95 Input will be appreciated.
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| cliftford | -- 08-12-2014 @ 3:07 PM |
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According to my info., the transmission should take 2 3/4 pints. If you are using a heavy oil such as SAE 140, it takes a little time for it to work its way around all the gears and into all the nooks and crannies. as for th e shackles I would buy a complete kit. Chances are the old parts are rusted or pitted. As for the rear drain plug, does it have a square hole in it? If you send a picture, maybe some one can come up with a solution.
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| len47merc | -- 08-12-2014 @ 4:11 PM |
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Absolutely not intending to open a can of worms here, or commandeer this discussion thread. This question may directly affect silverchief's actions as well. In multiple threads of late, including this one, statements have been made that 140W gear oil may be what is being used and/or is intended for our passenger car transmissions. In the Ford 1942-1948 Mercury Shop Manual on page C-4, Figure 5, the transmission is shown as requiring S.A.E. 80 in winter and S.A.E. 90 in summer, not 140. The rear axle/differential is shown as requiring S.A.E. 90 in winter and S.A.E. 140 in summer. Other reference manuals in my young but growing library reference the same. What am I missing here, that is, why are there so many references to using 140W in passenger car transmissions? Truck transmissions do show S.A.E. 140 for summer only (90 in winter), but I see no reference to using 140W in passenger car transmissions. Based on my short 1 year now of reading and restoration I've been using 80-90W in my '47 through this year without problem, but based on these references I am becoming concerned that trouble may be brewing if I am using the incorrect weight gear oil. Has this just become an agreed upon standard over the years for our original, possibly worn transmissions to better protect them, smooth them out (if necessary) and minimize the obligatory leaking? Silverchief, when using 80-90W and filling until a show of oil at the fill hole is realized, I have easily been able to reach in with a finger and feel the level, so I am puzzled as well with your problem unless as cliftford says you are using a heavier gear oil and it has not had time to flow through all the nooks and crannies. Also, I have to agree with cliftford - I'd just get a complete shackle kit and replace them turn-key for the same reasons he mentions. Greatly appreciate you seasoned veterans weighing (no pun intended) in here. Thanks - Steve This message was edited by len47merc on 8-12-14 @ 4:18 PM
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| supereal | -- 08-12-2014 @ 8:08 PM |
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The rear end axle plug is made with a square hole that fits a 3/8" drive socket wrench. If it is stuck, a 3/8 air impact wrench almost always does the job. Someone, sometime, may have cross threaded the hole or plug, and sealed it to prevent leakage, gluing it. As for 140 weight oil, it will quiet a noisy transmission or rear end, as well as making shifts a bit easier by slowing down the cluster gear in a really worn transmission. Just don't use it if you drive in cold weather. This message was edited by supereal on 8-12-14 @ 8:11 PM
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| BERTHA | -- 08-13-2014 @ 6:11 AM |
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......but the filler plug is rusted shut.... What's worked for me over the years. Shock & awe Tapping firmly around the plug with a hammer and brass drift= shock. While spraying with PB Blaster regularly for several daze= awe. Patience is the essence of success. Sorry 'bout the link??/ Bob "it's only original once"" This message was edited by BERTHA on 8-13-14 @ 6:15 AM
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| David J | -- 08-13-2014 @ 6:23 AM |
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This is what I go by . More important is the fact it WORKS GOOD and is less prone to leaking . I can only speak foe myself here and I am a firm believer in good old SAE 140 in tranny , steering box , u-joint & rear end with excellent results . Yes I drive these things a lot . I would be interested in why you think it is not good ? Yes in real cold weather it makes cold shifting a little difficult but only until it warms up some . On a cold morning do you jump in your old Ford and start it and immediately take off ? I don't. On the can of worms thing it's almost unavoidable on this subject . Almost as bad as the " pack it full " crowd on u-joint lube . As you can see spec is 4 oz . This message was edited by David J on 8-13-14 @ 6:26 AM
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| David J | -- 08-13-2014 @ 6:27 AM |
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A better pic
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| David J | -- 08-13-2014 @ 6:28 AM |
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Yes this is 34 info and you are talking newer stuff but I also use 140 in my 1985 farm pickup tranny as it is quieter and doesn't slobber as bad . That thing came with ATF in the tranny when new and was pretty noisy with it . 140 cured all that . This message was edited by David J on 8-13-14 @ 6:33 AM
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| len47merc | -- 08-13-2014 @ 10:30 AM |
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Thanks everyone for your replies. Silverchief, you and I are in the same boat on the trans gear oil (your '46 and my early '47). Up to you on what to use - if you are using 80-90 (or plan to use) it will definitely level-out more quickly in the trans than the 140. I plan on sticking with the 42-48 shop manual 80-90 recommendation and the Ford service bulletin info for these years as at least this '47 seems to like it year-round. Last month I replaced the rear shackles on my '47 and used the method that Tom0 describes in the very recent discussion entitled 'spring removal' in the General Mercury Discussion section. Tom gives very good advice there if you choose to go that route. Keep us posted on your differential plug - was perhaps the 3/8" square hole possibly filled with grease/dirt and just not visible, or is it 'wallered out'/stripped to the point a 3/8" ratchet head or impact wrench will not grab? 'Shock & awe' plan coupled with an impact wrench, both above, sound good to me as well. Hope you get it 'worked out' - good luck. Steve
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| supereal | -- 08-14-2014 @ 8:52 AM |
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If the plug is, in fact, rusted to the case, I'd drain and flush the axle to see if there is water contamination, necessary for rust. Oil level must be kept just below the filler plug to prevent oiling the rear brakes. The internal axle seals are usually badly worn and ineffective, allowing oil to pass. Most old Fords leak transmission oil down the torque tube into the rear axle. That is why you usually find excess oil when you remove the plug to check the oil level. If an impact wrench doesn't turn the plug, be cautions about hammering on it, or you may peen the plug, making removal more difficult. If you don't have any luck, take it to a good shop. At our machine shop, removing broken studs and bolts (and plugs) is all in a day's work.
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| silverchief | -- 08-18-2014 @ 10:29 AM |
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Thanks for all your input guys. Here is the update. I used Supertech API GL-5 85W-140 in the transmission. Sure didn't seem "heavy" to me - more like about 40W motor oil. It ran out of the filler plug quite easily. Because of recently discussed problems with brake and turn signal lights - I went to the DIY (Do It Yourself) facility here in Denver. Only other one I know of is in California. For thirty bucks an hour they rent you your own private bay with a lift, plus work bench, vice, shop coat, safety glasses, and 400 some hand tools in tool chests. Also dispose of all liquids. Their "company car" is a 52 Ford pickup. The owner has some knowledge of old cars and took it upon himself to correct my wiring problem. While it was on the lift I showed him the differential filler plug. He tapped a socket wrench handle into the plug hole, put a little beef behind it, and it broke free. Problem solved. He also double checked the trans fluid level and it was up to correct level. So for now - until the next old car headache - I am good to go. Thanks again.
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| silverchief | -- 08-18-2014 @ 10:52 AM |
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Just as a matter of interest here is a pamphlet from the DIY garage. A real godsend for old car guys.
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| David J | -- 08-18-2014 @ 12:14 PM |
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Good news on the plug . SAE 140 is very thick compared to what you used . Like comparing 10w30 to SAE 30 . Very different stuff but what you used is fine also . This subject brings many conflicting OPINIONS to the surface . Enjoy and good luck !! Dave
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