| Dads41SuperD | -- 07-05-2014 @ 8:27 AM |
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OK - I knew it was going to be a stretch to run in the 4th of July Parade. It was 100 degrees and the parade was painfully slow. I made it 45 minutes before I had to pull out and leave the Blue Star Mothers high and dry. I am relatively new to this - I've had the car about a year. I want to try the parade again next year. I have done a lot of work on the car, but have not touched the cooling system, which appears to be original. I've read some of the posts on cooling and am getting mixed messages about higher flow water pumps and other upgrades to the cooling system. Bottom line - Am I asking too much of the old girl?
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| Old Henry | -- 07-05-2014 @ 11:37 AM |
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I've run the 47 sedan in many parades, probably not at 100 degrees but close, and have never overheated. All of the things you've read about improving the cooling system can help in varying degrees. I would prioritize the remedies as follows: 1. Clean the radiator very good, both inside and out. 2. Install thermostats with higher flow than stock. Stants are better than any others for the 59A engine. 3. Clean the rust from the engine with Evapo-rust. 4. Run as little antifreeze as is necessary to protect from freezing in the lowest expected winter temperatures. Water cools better than antifreeze and propylene glycol antifreeze cools better than ethylene glycol. But don't run totally without antifreeze, even in the summer. It has additives necessary to prevent reduce corrosion and lubricate the water pumps. 5. Use distilled water rather than regular tap water. 6. Add Hyper-lube Super Coolant to the radiator water. It's better than Water-Wetter. 7. The modern replacements for the water pumps are a higher flow. I'm nor talking about Skip's pumps. He does not recommend using his with thermostats. Their flow is only higher without thermostats. 8. Some add fans with more blades, fan shrouds, and/or electric fans. I've never needed any of those to make it through a parade without overheating.
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| Dads41SuperD | -- 07-05-2014 @ 12:30 PM |
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Old Henry That all makes sense except I don't know where to get a high flow thermostat of what "Stants" are. Thanks for you advise.
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| Old Henry | -- 07-05-2014 @ 2:15 PM |
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It is a Stant 14157 available on line many places including Amazon here: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000C822YC or at NAPA part number THM 111, or at O'Reilly that sells the same stat as a Murray 4157, O'Reilly part number 2962. Or just ask for the thermostat for a 1990 Subaru Justy.
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| oldford2 | -- 07-05-2014 @ 2:31 PM |
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O K. Professor, I have to take you to task. You just told Dads41SuperD that your car has run in many parades close to 100 degrees and has NEVER overheated.(???) Now a parade in hot weather is the worst test for a flathead. So, if your car does not overheat, why have you spent the last two years testing different cures for overheating and posting your results here and on the Fordbarn. Now much of your advice is good but you have to get off this vendetta you seem to have with Skip and Shewman. PLEASE John This message was edited by oldford2 on 7-5-14 @ 2:32 PM
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| Dads41SuperD | -- 07-05-2014 @ 2:54 PM |
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Thanks Old Henry. A few more questions. 1) Should I pressurize - say 4lb cap? My radiator looks to be in good shape, but I will take it down and get it boiled and tested 2) I have looked at some of the ford barn posts. It's unclear where I should put the new thermostat. Mount On the block or on the radiator. 3) I see one reply that shows wires holding the thermostat in place. Do you recommend? I plan on making these changes and testing this summer on 100 degree day. I am determined to make next years parade. Thanks This message was edited by Dads41SuperD on 7-5-14 @ 3:34 PM
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| Steves46 | -- 07-05-2014 @ 3:08 PM |
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Hello. In my experience in driving flatheads in Florida during the summertime, I have found that there is one primary thing you must have to keep the temps in-check...airflow. I run Skips high flow pumps with no T-stats and usually maintain temps between 165 & 170 however if I get caught in slow moving traffic or one of the many century long stoplights, within minutes I can watch a steady increase with the temp gauge. At this point I am increasing RPMs and although this helps a little, as soon as steady air is moving again through the radiator, the temps will drop back down. I agree that your radiator should be in tip top condition, but without steady airflow, it will be a challenge...at least here in Florida. By-the-way, very nice looking coupe. Hope you are able to resolve your problem. Steve
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| Dads41SuperD | -- 07-05-2014 @ 3:27 PM |
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Thanks Steve46. I started increasing rpms but may have waited too long. I think I was already losing coolant. I'm still a rookie.
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| 1938cr | -- 07-05-2014 @ 5:12 PM |
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Hi Dads41SuperD: A Parade in 100+ degree heat is a real test for most older cars not just ours. I agree with Steve46, nothing beats airflow. If you want to participate in more parades under similar conditions, I would consider installing an electric fan. You could set it up as a temporary removable fan and harness that you only use for hot days, or install it in a more permanent manor. Speedway sells a 6 volt electric fan in three sizes. Best of luck! CR
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| Old Henry | -- 07-05-2014 @ 8:20 PM |
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In response to oldford2's tirade, I meant that I had never overheated in a parade. Climbing 10% grades in hot weather for miles I used to overheat once in a blue moon before I installed the Stant thermostats. I have no vendetta against Shewman's stats nor Skip's pumps. They've had some creative ideas. At least Skip admits the limitations of his pumps. I don't know what Bob Shewman knows or admits about the limitations of his 59A stats. His major promoter on the Ford Barn (G.M.) certainly has not . . . until maybe now that the facts are known. What I do have is a passion for truthful representations of what things will and won't do and a totally accurate understanding of such. As I began my recent Ford Barn thread reporting my test of Shewman's stats http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=143576 I explained that I didn't really care enough about it to do it. I was satisfied that the Stant's were better and they worked fine for me. But there were others who really wanted to know (including YOU*) and one sent me the Shewman stats to test. So, I did it. That's all. If you don't want to know the truth. Don't read my posts. They just might hurt. * "So you have great pictures and measurements but have you tested them?? ... When you have tested them report back." Your post #86 in response to my initial study of Shewman's stats here: http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=112889 This message was edited by Old Henry on 7-6-14 @ 9:25 AM
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| Old Henry | -- 07-05-2014 @ 9:06 PM |
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In response to Dads41SuperD's questions: 1) Yes. Use a 4 lb cap on the radiator. It will increase your boiling point by 13°. 2) The stock and similar thermostats, such as the Stants that I recommend, are installed on top of the necks on the heads inside of the radiator hose. Only Shewman's stats are installed inside of the upper end of the radiator hose against the radiator neck. See thread referenced at the end. 3) I do string a single strand of a stranded wire through the stats and down the head neck for the hose to clamp on to hold the stats down and keep them from pushing up, turning 90° and becoming useless. See detailed instructions and pictures in this thread on the Ford Barn: http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=118305 This message was edited by Old Henry on 7-5-14 @ 9:41 PM
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| Dads41SuperD | -- 07-05-2014 @ 10:18 PM |
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OK - I think I'm set. I plan on 1) Cleaning the radiator 2) I have two Stant Thermostats coming from Amazon 3) I have some Evapo-Rust coming - Amazon didn't stock 4) I have some Hy-Per Lube Super Coolant coming - Amazon 5) Install 4 lb cap 6) Finally, I will install high flow pumps If that doesn't do it, Ill consider adding electric fans I plan on changing the motor mounts at the same time. This will take me a few weeks or so. I'll let you know. This message was edited by Dads41SuperD on 7-5-14 @ 10:34 PM
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| TomO | -- 07-06-2014 @ 9:43 AM |
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Your 41 did very well to run in a parade for 45 minutes. You must have an original Ford radiator core in your car. Because it lasted as long as you say it did, I would assume that your cooling system is pretty clean. The car really looks good dressed up for the parade. I would be careful about taking anything apart and using chemicals to improve the cooling. You might try just plain steam distilled water with a rust inhibitor. Tom
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| Dads41SuperD | -- 07-06-2014 @ 11:31 AM |
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TomO I don't believe the radiator was ever replaced. Maybe you or someone can tell me if the one I have is original - see attached.
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| 4dFordSC | -- 07-07-2014 @ 4:05 AM |
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An old trick used by taxi drivers to improve airflow on hot days was to partially open the hood and leave it on the auxiliary catch. Might help in parades, too.
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| daoust | -- 07-07-2014 @ 6:18 AM |
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It's pretty rare that I can contribute much to this forum, but I had over-heating problems on my 47. I had the radiator re-cored and all the problems went away. Even in the hottest weather she never gets above about 190 degrees on the after-market dual temp guages. Nothing worse than constantly glancing at the temp guage when you know you have an over-heat problem. It's worth considering. Good luck. David Daoust
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| TomO | -- 07-07-2014 @ 6:47 AM |
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It is difficult to tell from photos whether your core is original or a replacement. A good radiator shop can tell. I would spray your core with Simple Green on both sides and let it work for about 1 minute and then rinse the radiator from the motor side. I would repeat this every time that you wash the car. This will remove the years of dirt on the fins and core. I see stains that may indicate a small leak. I would check it out. Tom
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| ken ct. | -- 07-07-2014 @ 8:18 AM |
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Len I have sent you a PM to help you but get NO response so I will leave you to your problem as you don't seem to want my help. ken ct.
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| Dads41SuperD | -- 07-07-2014 @ 11:32 AM |
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ken, Nothing personal - I just didn't check my inbox. I still work (quick lunch now) but I'll check it tonight. Len
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| ken ct. | -- 07-07-2014 @ 12:02 PM |
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Well I see you got the baffle tube out, don't know about all that other stuff under there. Put the stand gasket on the manifold BEFORE you insert the baffle tube. ken ct.
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| ken ct. | -- 07-07-2014 @ 2:08 PM |
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Also Len the short baffle tube 4" is used with the stock alum. intake manifold. If yours has a stock cast iron intake manifold a 5" long baffle tube is correct for cast iron one.Also CI needs a FP rod 8 7/8" long. Alum. uses a 7 7/8" long.Hope this info helps you. ken ct. I have ford script rods and correct baffle tubes available and the stand an pump gaskets if you need.
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| Dads41SuperD | -- 07-07-2014 @ 4:58 PM |
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ken - Thanks. Wrong forum, but I know what you are talking about. For those interested, I have a discussion on The Barn on how to replace the fuel pump rod. My user names are almost identical. Thanks for the input. Len
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| ken ct. | -- 07-07-2014 @ 5:28 PM |
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Sorry I can only read posts on the fordbarn,ive been banned from that site.Its a long story. ken ct.
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| Dads41SuperD | -- 07-07-2014 @ 7:34 PM |
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OK - I see you around on this site, so I'll remember that. Len
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| CraigTerry | -- 07-25-2014 @ 6:31 PM |
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Any updates?
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| ford38v8 | -- 07-25-2014 @ 10:35 PM |
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I was waiting for Ken's long story. Alan
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| Dads41SuperD | -- 08-01-2014 @ 7:35 AM |
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OK - It's taken a while but I have made some progress. I went ahead and used a chemical to clean out the rust (EvapoRust). That in conjunction with dropping the 50/50 solution and replace with a low concentration solution seamed to help. I idled for about 1/h hour yesterday in the heat of the day (approx. 90 deg). Temp climbed to about 205 at the block and looked like it might keep climbing. Next I put a small 110v fan in the front of the radiator to simulate a potential 6v fan to be installed later if necessary. That worked great - temp held constant at 200. Next step is to install the Stant thermostats, high flow water pumps and replace the heater hoses. The bottom hoses are currently corrugated - that can't be good for flow. Sorry for the slow progress - I still have to go to work every day.
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| supereal | -- 08-01-2014 @ 11:06 AM |
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When I got my '47,almost 20 years ago, you couldn't go around the block without seeing the gauge needle flip toward the red side. After all else failed, I replaced the radiator. Now, overheating is gone. Boiling, rodding, and re-coring may help, but replacement with a new, clean radiator is worth the investment. I have run in a few parades, and while warm, it never boils. The engine revs have to be raised when lulls in the movement are happen to keep the air moving. If parades are your thing, installing a pusher electric auxiliary fan is probably the best solution.
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