| Flatbob | -- 01-26-2014 @ 12:46 PM |
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Have a '40 steering gear box in my '36, at around 15MPH in first gear I get uncontrollable front end wobble. With steering wheel centered and wheels straight forward the steering wheel has no play to the left but a lot of play to the right. Am thinking this condition may be contributing to my steering problem, what should I do to correct steering wheel play? Went through the box before installing but din't replace large worm gear as it appeared visually okay.
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| deuce_roadster | -- 01-26-2014 @ 5:31 PM |
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Have you verified that the king pins, tie rod ends, drag ling ends and toe in are correct and without play?
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| Stroker | -- 01-26-2014 @ 6:47 PM |
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In addition to Deuce Roadster's excellent advice, have someone observe for any movement of the steering box in relation to the frame while you rotate the wheel.
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| Flatbob | -- 01-26-2014 @ 8:25 PM |
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The king pins are new and fit the spindles as they should, checked tie rod ends and drag link. No slop in pitman arm. Again, at this point my main concern is how much play there is in the steering wheel, but only in one direction to the right (100°) and zero play to the left. I have maybe slightly less than 1/16" toe in but have about 1.5° of camber in instead of out. If this is a camber issue I wouldn't know what to do about it. Will verify box to frame movement. This message was edited by Flatbob on 1-26-14 @ 8:26 PM
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| supereal | -- 01-26-2014 @ 9:13 PM |
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From your description, it sounds as if you didn't correctly position the worm gear when the box was assembled. There is special spot on the worm that has a high point. When you remove the pitman arm, turn the steering wheel from one stop to the other, and count the turns. When you reach half of the total turns, you should be able to find that spot by feel. Then reinstall the pitman arm with the front wheels facing exactly ahead. It is likely you wil have to repostion the steering wheel when completed. The worm is constructed so the front wheels should come back to straight ahead after turning. If this procedure doesn't fix the problem, it is likely the box will have to come out to be assembled properly. This message was edited by supereal on 1-26-14 @ 9:14 PM
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| Flatbob | -- 01-27-2014 @ 8:14 AM |
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Super, when you say "you should be able to find that spot by feel;" do you mean I can feel it through the steering wheel? When I had the box apart to replace what I could I never removed the worm gear so am assuming it was installed correctly. Will do as you suggest but I think I've already done as you described but never felt the spot you described on the worm gear. Thanks for the help[.
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| deuce_roadster | -- 01-27-2014 @ 8:58 AM |
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When everything is as it should be, the "feel" will be tightest when in the middle of the travel and there will be "slack" at each end of the travel. Like Super said, you should feel it tightest at the steering wheel when you are HALFWAY through the total number of turns lock to lock. At this point, set your wheels straight ahead and fit the pitman arm to the box. If it is loose at the center of travel and tight elsewhere, I think the box has to come apart. I have 3 40 boxes I built from all NOS Ford parts, including the housing casting and it was as described by Super. Be sure you go through the adjustment process carefully. This message was edited by deuce_roadster on 1-27-14 @ 9:01 AM
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| Flatbob | -- 01-27-2014 @ 9:25 AM |
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As soon as the garage warms up a little bit with the heaters on today, will see if I can do what has been suggested.
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| supereal | -- 01-27-2014 @ 11:03 AM |
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In addition to my post on the setting of the "high spot", The wobble is another concern. I fought that problem in my "Model A" days. All wheels, front and back, should be checked for "runout". That is, to find any that are bent or oblong instead of round. Same is true of the tires, themselves. We have found many that are lopsided. The amount of toe-in can set off a wobble, particulary if there is any play in the steering box. We used to set that at zero. If you are getting the wobble around 15 mph, wheel balance is probably not a factor. If the problem continues, over inflate the tires, one at a time, to see if there is a difference. Same is true of swapping wheels to different positions. Rear wheels and tires are often the cause of wobble or shimmy. It can be a dangerous condition.
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| deuce_roadster | -- 01-27-2014 @ 11:31 AM |
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I forgot to mention to check the ball at the back of the wishbone. That could let the whole front end move if the rubber was gone or cap was loose.
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| Flatbob | -- 01-27-2014 @ 11:56 AM |
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Okay, car is off the ground with jack stands under axle, showing 7° of caster to the rear but am getting 2° camber in on left wheel and 1° camber out on right wheel. The resistance spot you mention at the halfway point into the L/R position is pronounced as you describe so I believe the steering box is assembled correctly. Any suggestion on how I can accurately measure toe in; I think the method I was using was not a good way? Back to the steering box, it seems as though steering box is assembled correctly & all the steering gear is as it should be; why does the steering wheel have no play to the left and way too much play to the right when tires are on the ground? Will see if I have an out of round condition.
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| Flatbob | -- 01-27-2014 @ 12:19 PM |
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I may have made this more complicated than necessary. With the wheels off the ground I can grab a wheel with my hands and rock it side to side; I shouldn't be able to do that should I? Seems sloppy loose to me. Would this be corrected by adjusting "cross shaft end play" as described in the '40 engine & chassis repair manual?
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| Flatbob | -- 01-27-2014 @ 12:21 PM |
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Deuce-roadster, didn't pay enough attention to your original post about end play, think that may be the problem.
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| deuce_roadster | -- 01-27-2014 @ 12:46 PM |
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Sounds like you are zeroing in on it. My steering boxes have an equal amount of slack at each end of the travel, left and right. If you don't find anything amiss with the tie rod ends or drag link ends check your outer wheel bearings. Good luck. If by "cross shaft" they mean sector, by all means that must be correct. This message was edited by deuce_roadster on 1-27-14 @ 12:49 PM
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| Flatbob | -- 01-27-2014 @ 1:35 PM |
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Thought I was on to something but adjusting cross shaft screw had no affect on the play in the steering. When I had the'36 box in the car I don't remember being able to rock the wheels back and forth when they were off the ground. Checked the '36 box and there is no play in the shaft in either direction. With the amount of play I have I can see why it would wobble when going down the road. Should there be any play in the pitman arm, I'm able to rock it back and forth which translate to quite a bit of movement at the wheels. This message was edited by Flatbob on 1-27-14 @ 2:35 PM
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| deuce_roadster | -- 01-27-2014 @ 2:57 PM |
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I would say there should be no play in the pitman arm, it should be rock solid. I'm afraid you need to take that box back apart. Did you replace the bushing in the housing that the sector goes through? Do you have the tapered bearings that hold the worm in the housing set with the paper gaskets to have no up and down play, but turn freely? The play you describe is coming from somewhere.
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| Flatbob | -- 01-27-2014 @ 3:23 PM |
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It sounds like I didn't go far enough when I had the box on the bench. At the time it looked to me like I would need a press to completely disassemble it. I'll give it h*ll tomorrow. Appreciate the help. UPDATE: Removed one (1) shim and completely locked up steering wheel; but pitman arm still moves back and forth. Ordered parts to rebuild. This message was edited by Flatbob on 1-28-14 @ 3:20 PM
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