| kkeyser | -- 11-17-2013 @ 3:52 PM |
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I've got a stock, restored '36 Ford Phaeton. The stock Houdaille shocks are in need of rebuild or replacement. Sending out for rebuilding is not only pricey, but from what I've heard, not necessarily guaranteed to be returned not leaking. Alternative might be converting to tube shocks and sway bars to improve ride and stability. Has anyone done this on a '36? I'd prefer a bolt-on solution so as not to disrupt the integrity of the stock chassis. It looks like Drake, Chassis Engineering, etc. offer a bolt-on solution for the front. Anyone done this?? How about the rear? With the stock '36 rear axle/radius rods/backing plates (juice brakes BTW), it doesn't appear a bolt-on rear shock set up is available. Anyone found a good solution to adapt rear tubes shocks to the stock axle set up? Ultimately, has anyone found the ride improved after installing tube shocks?? How about sway bars?? Thanks!
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| 40 Coupe | -- 11-18-2013 @ 4:55 AM |
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In my opinion the change over to the tube shock is a major modification to the 36 chassis and the ride. I have used Bill Wzorek to rebuild a couple of shock pairs for me without any problems or leaks. See the fordbarn.com web site for his contact info. The ride is better with the original shocks. Although the initial price of the rebuild is slightly high it will pay off in the resale of the vehicle. By the way your car is beautiful. This message was edited by 40 Coupe on 11-18-13 @ 4:56 AM
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| TomO | -- 11-18-2013 @ 8:45 AM |
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I agree with 40 Coupe about keeping the original shocks. The tube shocks are not better than the original one, just cheaper.I had the ones on my 40 rebuilt in 1977 and they are still working as designed. Unfortunately the rebuilder that I used in no longer in business. I don't know of any way to install a sway bar that would not require drilling holes in your frame. The 36 will handle fairly well with the rebuilt shocks. I also like you car. Tom
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| mikecnc | -- 11-18-2013 @ 1:47 PM |
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I have a '35 Deluxe Tudor Sedan that I installed front and rear tube shocks on during restoration. I wrestled with the same issue, rebuild the Houdaille shocks or install tube shocks, since I had several RG members tell me that rebuilding was expensive and they will leak again anyway. I purchased the fronts from Chassis Engineering and the towers were easy to install, but required drilling holes in the frame and the lower mounts required replacing the original Ford spring perches with the supplied units. The rears were purchased from Joe Smith in Atlanta, GA. I saw their rear shocks installed on a '35 or '36 coupe owned by Jack Rousch which was entered in the Great Race. The lower mounts are welded to the rear axle housing and are adjustable and the upper mounts are bolts thru the shock eye that attach thru holes drilled in the front side of the cross member. Detailed installation instructions are included by both vendors. My car is a driver that is entered in Touring Class at National Meets. I am very satisfied with the ride and stability of the car on curves and turns; I believe these shocks, especially the rear, eliminate the need for sway bars.
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| trjford8 | -- 11-18-2013 @ 4:36 PM |
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Check e-Bay and with C and G Parts. There are some bolt-on rear units that are copies of the rear 48 Ford units. No welding, just bolt-on. c and G will also have the front units.
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| Stroker | -- 11-18-2013 @ 5:25 PM |
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Years; (55) ago, I "upgraded" my 38 wagon with tube shocks all around. The only holes I had to drill were in the back side of the rear cross member, as the front brackets mounted up to the frame using the original lever mount bolt holes. I ran really stiff, big-bore 50/50 aftermarket Gabriel "Silver E's" off of a 50's Cadillac on the back, and indeed, it acted like an anti-sway bar. I was happy, and it drove really well. In later years,(70's) I decided that I wanted to make the car more "original", and at that time, I was able to find NOS levers. In retrospect, I believe that at least in the rear, the steeply-angled tubes did substantially reduce initial "turn-in" body roll; [realizing that a wagon presents far more "dirty" aerodynamically-speaking]side area than a phaeton). In the front, I believe the only advantage is cost, and ease of replacement. Having said this, I believe they look like cr*p, and in my humble opinion, detract from the vintage "ambiance" of an early Ford chassis. Unless you live where you are bucking severe cross-winds and you are in a big hurry to "commute", I cannot see any logical, compelling reason to make the switch.
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| Drbrown | -- 11-18-2013 @ 6:35 PM |
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I suspect there are probably too many physical differences but if you really wanted tubular shocks, in Mid-1947 Ford started producing cars with tubular shocks on the rear, attached to simple brackets welded to the right and left axle housings. My Ford has such. I understand you would want bolt-on brackets for ease and simplicity but a late '47 would at least offer you a model as to how to construct and attach tubular shocks on the rear. For whatever reason, at least for that year, Ford retained the traditional arm & hammer shocks on the front, probable because of limited space. Too bad .... as the majoriety of weight up there would probably have been better controlled using tubulars. Maybe my front's are soft but my coupe corners like old ironsides under full sail using a 4 foot diameter steering wheel. Regardless, bottom line for me .... if you can get good-rebuilds on stock components for an item like this, I would vote to stay with them. This message was edited by Drbrown on 11-18-13 @ 6:41 PM
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| wmsteed | -- 11-19-2013 @ 9:28 AM |
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I changed the front shocks on my '36 to tube shocks in 1952 when I converted the brakes to hydraulic.. reason being availability and cost.. In 1954 I replaced the original engine with a well built 59AB engine. In '55 I replaced the original Columbia with a '47-48 unit, blended into my original center section and drive line.. In 1955 I also changed the front axle to a '41 dropped 2" and changed the steering gears to a '40 unit. I added sway bars and anti roll stabilizer bars.. I have driven the car 94k in the 61 years I have owed it.. Would I go back to stock? I have thought about it from time to time, doubt I'll ever do it. Would I suggest that kkeyser convert his '36 Phaeton to tube shock... Not in a New York minute.. There are several very good re-builders of stock lever action shocks... Bill 36 5 win delx cpe
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| CaliforniaBorn36 | -- 11-19-2013 @ 12:58 PM |
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Over on the FordBarn website, there is a company called Pure Rods (309) 582-3547 that advertised bolt on rear shock mounts in the Swap section. You may want to take a look if you are set on doing something like that. Let us know the end result, always interested in actual experiences with products and how people solve various issues
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| CaliforniaBorn36 | -- 11-19-2013 @ 1:00 PM |
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Over on the FordBarn website, there is a company called Pure Rods (309) 582-3547 that advertised bolt on rear shock mounts in the Swap section. You may want to take a look if you are set on doing something like that. Let us know the end result, always interested in actual experiences with products and how people solve various issues
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| CaliforniaBorn36 | -- 11-19-2013 @ 1:00 PM |
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Over on the FordBarn website, there is a company called Pure Rods (309) 582-3547 that advertised bolt on rear shock mounts in the Swap section. You may want to take a look if you are set on doing something like that. Let us know the end result, always interested in actual experiences with products and how people solve various issues
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| 40cpe | -- 11-19-2013 @ 5:36 PM |
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I think it is going to be difficult to find an objective comparison of good, up-to-spec original shocks to modern tube shocks. My observation is most people pick one of the options, install them, and call it good. The time and expense of trying several options on the same car prevents experimentation by most of us unless the first try fails. Then there is the variable of other mods made to the car such as removed spring leaves, aftermarket springs, dropped axle, etc. One deviation from the original equipment design often resonates through other systems on the car. I've rambled enough, but my thoughts are if the car is original, install original equipment. If it's modified, you're on your own.
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| wmsteed | -- 11-20-2013 @ 7:42 AM |
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I can honestly say that the suspension and power-train mods I have done to my '36 have made it a better car.. For the first three years that I owned it, I drove the wheels off of it.. I was working for a company that required that I travel the eleven western states.. When I moved to So. Cal in '56 I drove the '36 to work every day on the freeways and surface streets, sometimes my daily commute was in excess of a 100 miles per day.. Leaving the house at 5:00 AM, not getting home until after 6 PM After I de-tuned the engine a little in '58, my wife even enjoyed driving the car.. Left hand column shift included. Basically my suspension and power train is all bolt together '47-48 Ford.. With the Columbia and 3.78 gears the car cruises very nicely, hour after hour at 65/75. In my younger years I regularly drag raced the car on weekends, sometimes I engaged in a little street racing, then put my tools back into the trunk in the morning and headed out to work. I guess the reliability of the '36 is why I have keep it for over 61 years... Bill 36 5 win delx cpe
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| flatheadfan | -- 11-20-2013 @ 5:01 PM |
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There is another shock option worth considering that requires no frame modification and bolts on using the existing frame holes. Plus, they are easily rebuilt when needed for under $15. These are the Delco-Lovejoy lever action shocks. I have them on all four corners of my '35 and love them. As proof of their indestructibility, the old time whiskey runners of the Appalachian hills relied on Lovejoys as their shock of choice especially when those pesky revenuers were on their trail. They provided great stability and were virtually bullet-proof (mechanically speaking). Tom
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| fenbach | -- 11-30-2013 @ 3:22 PM |
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i used a '46-'48 front bracket to mount a [short] tube shock in back on my '36. i did have to drill new holes and cut a notch in the inner fender. but it worked because the bracket is offset. i got them from pete & jakes http://www.peteandjakes.com/Catalog4.aspx?pid=223 . but couldn't convince them to offer a mount bracket that would bolt to the original frame holes. i'll post another reply with a picture of the extended shackle bolt which is the lower mount.
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| fenbach | -- 11-30-2013 @ 3:31 PM |
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here's a picture of the extended shackle bolt that i used for the lower rear shock mount. i think i got it from pete & jakes too but, regardless, make sure the shackle end is long enough to fit the rear spring because it's is a bit wider than a '36 front spring as i recall. i forgot to mention that you have to line up the bracket carefully with the lower mount. otherwise the shock will be at an angle and will rub on one side of the bracket. i've also seen a triangular shackle plate with a third hole for the shock bolt.
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| Robert/Texas | -- 12-01-2013 @ 8:13 AM |
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I agree with 40Coupe and TomO. I had the rear shocks on my '37 Fordor rebuilt by Bill Wzorek some time ago and was amazed by the improvement in the ride. I'm sending all four of the shocks from my '34 roadster to him this week just as soon as I can get them off the car.
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