| Mick in Saratoga | -- 07-23-2013 @ 9:21 AM |
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Does anyone have any info on Ford's use of Cotswold Gray Poly in 1940? I'm doing a frame-off restoration a '40 convertible and I want to re-paint that color.
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| kubes40 | -- 07-23-2013 @ 11:15 AM |
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If you are restoring your 1940 Ford convertible then you may want to reconsider your choice of color as it was not an authentic choice. If you are refurbishing your auto, and as such picking a non-authentic color I might advise that you seek out a shade that you like and go with that. Mike "Kube" Kubarth This message was edited by kubes40 on 7-23-13 @ 11:16 AM
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| flathead48 | -- 07-23-2013 @ 11:50 AM |
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Mick, check TCP Global auto color library, they show a couple of Grays for 1940
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| Mick in Saratoga | -- 07-23-2013 @ 12:26 PM |
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TCP Global and every other source I've looked at lists Cotswold Gray Poly as a 1940 passenger car color, but the only examples I've ever seen of it are on the woody wagon.
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| kubes40 | -- 07-23-2013 @ 2:14 PM |
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Be careful when relying on TCP Global or any other modern supplier for the correct information and / or the correct shades. Cotswold gray is NOT a 1940 Ford color. Period. End of story. The only colors authentic to 1940 Ford passenger cars were: Cloud Mist Gray (appears green), Folkstone Gray (grayish -tan), Yosemite Green, Lyon Blue, Mandarin Maroon, Garnet Maroon (light maroon - spring color only) and black. If you have seen Cotswold gray on a wagon... it was incorrect. This message was edited by kubes40 on 7-27-13 @ 5:34 AM
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| Kens 36 | -- 07-23-2013 @ 5:55 PM |
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Mike is correct - Cotswold Gray Poly was not a Ford color. It was a Spring 1940 Mercury color. Ken
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| TomO | -- 07-23-2013 @ 6:10 PM |
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Cotswold gray poly was a 1940 spring color for Mercury cars only. As Kube said, you would receive a point deduction on the Concourse for an incorrect color, unless you could prove that the car was delivered that way. Other Mercury only colors are Como Blue Poly, Sahara Tan and Cigarette Cream. Tom
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| TomO | -- 07-24-2013 @ 9:02 AM |
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Here is a picture of Dick Duncan's 40 Merc before it was auctioned off. It is Cotswold Gray. I thought of painting my Merc this color, but the family consensus (wife) was Como Blue, and I am happy with it. Tom This message was edited by TomO on 7-24-13 @ 9:05 AM
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| Mick in Saratoga | -- 07-24-2013 @ 8:19 PM |
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Thank you all for your input and suggestions. It was very much appreciated. Damn, but it sure looks pretty on Dick Duncan's Merc - Thanks for the pic, Tom
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| TomO | -- 07-25-2013 @ 7:40 AM |
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You are right about Dick Dubcan's Merc. I loved that car from the first time that I saw it. Here is Como Blue on my Merc. Tom
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| Mick in Saratoga | -- 07-25-2013 @ 2:25 PM |
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TomO Love your car. I've seen Como Blue on a woodie before and it really looks great. I've long thought whoever picked the Ford colors in '40 was color blind. My car was originally Folkstone Gray (which is really tan), but it was repainted a couple times and ended up a light blue-gray. Cloud Mist Gray is green and would be a nice color if it were a little more subtle (lighter). Why Ford offered two maroons is a mystery to me. And the two greens are almost the same color. Sadly, the only blue they offered is too light. I have a friend with a Tacoma Crème woodie and he tells me you could special order any paint for made that year, so I don't think painting it a '40 Merc color is that outrageous. If he's right, it's not too much of a stretch to say it is "correct", if not "period correct". Someone long ago put tube shocks on it, and I'm keeping them. And it will have a Merc red leather interior. I've had the frame and undercarriage powder coated gloss black, put stainless shackles on the springs. Other than that, the car will remain completely stock. I've seen guys but their butts trying to get a Dearborn and fail. I'm not that anal. Frankly, I plan on making it last for another 75 years (it really belongs to my two-yr-old grandson now). Send me an email at mickalbright@aol.com and we'll talk offline. Mick
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| kubes40 | -- 07-26-2013 @ 7:18 AM |
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Mike in Saratoga, As I had initially offered, it is your car... if authenticity does not matter, then there is no question remaining. Paint it whatever color pleases you. Your friend that insists Ford would special order any color is way off the mark. He may desire to believe this but the plain truth is - it did not happen. Just think about the logistical problems of painting one singular vehicle a special color in a factory whose sole design was to crank out cars as quickly as possible. Bottom line... no special order colors. The only exception were commercial vehicles sold in a fleet. That was a minimum order of five identical vehicles to one customer. By the way, Lyon Blue, an authentic choice for your vehicle was very dark. Mercury Red leather was an option on Ford passenger cars. However, here too one must understand that this "option" was only offered as a last resort. That is, per Ford letter to dealers: "... only as a last resort and in order to avoid losing a sale, Mercury Red leather may be substituted in any model Ford for an additional cost of $35..." do not misconstrue this to believe paint colors would have also been offered as a "last resort". It was fairly easy to trim a set of seats, door panels in a different color (in the trim shop) vs. changing paint colors upon an assembly line. Mike "Kube" Kubarth This message was edited by kubes40 on 7-26-13 @ 7:23 AM
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| TomO | -- 07-26-2013 @ 7:23 AM |
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It is your car and you can paint it any color that you like and will enjoy over the years. IMHO the original color of your car, Folkstone Gray, looks nice on a Ford convertible. I painted a 40 Ford Coupe with a 1950 Buick gray that was close to Cotswold Gray and it did look sharp. Lyon Blue is a very dark blue. At night it looks black. The special order paint jobs are mostly a myth. You had to have a very good friend at the plant in order to get a Mercury or Lincoln color on a Ford. The logistics of getting the non-standard paint colors together on one car were quite a chore. Most special order paint jobs were done for fleet jobs, where there were enough cars to make the effort worthwhile. Tom
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| woodiewagon46 | -- 07-26-2013 @ 12:13 PM |
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I have to be careful with my words because I don't want to offend a good friend of mine. When it was time to paint his V-8, he insisted he had the color he wanted to paint his car, on a car he had when he was in college. We all told him that if he was going to show his car there would be a huge point deduction when it was judged. He used the "special order" line to both V-8 Club and AACA judges and guess what, he didn't win ether argument! If you are building your car to drive and enjoy then you will have to be able to listen to all the "you know your car is painted the wrong color" comments.
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| ford38v8 | -- 07-26-2013 @ 12:41 PM |
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I'm digging through cobwebs in the back of my brain here, trying to remember if the quote attributed to Henry Ford is true... I could look it up, but I'm too lazy today. I've read that during the Brass Era, Ford offered many bright, exotic colors, but as the Model T neared the end of its run, only black was offered. Now, the quote attributed to Henry Ford: "Any color as long as it's black" True or False? Alan
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| Stroker | -- 07-26-2013 @ 2:12 PM |
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Alan: I don't have any proof that Henry actually said that, but it is my understanding that the black paint in the 20's dried much faster than the colors did. Given the rate of production during that period, painting Model T's in the bright shades offered earlier would have unacceptably slowed down his (and his body suppliers)speedy production lines. By the Model A era, paint technology had advanced to the point that colors could be re-introduced, and I suspect a lot of lobbying by Edsel also forced the issue. I also suspect cost was a major factor as well, given that in the late 20's Fords were priced lower than the "competition".
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| Mick in Saratoga | -- 07-26-2013 @ 7:17 PM |
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TomO I'll have to get a sample of Lyon Blue and spray it on something. Is it in the Jefferson Blue/Washington Blue range? I've apparently never seen a Lyon Blue '40 - all the pics I've seen lead me to believe it was lighter than that. Mick
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| kubes40 | -- 07-27-2013 @ 5:43 AM |
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Mick, again, be careful of what the modern paint suppliers might sell you. They have, I am certain done their best to reformulate the paints. However, there are no perfect matches for the chemicals of yesteryear to now. It takes a very well preserved area (authentic paint) to get a good and accurate match. I have been fortunate to be able to use areas beneath head liners and / or under door panels. Little fading due to light, etc. effects those areas. Picture herein attached of a two Lyon Blue cars and a Jefferson Blue car. Here too, pictures are not accurate replications due to lighting, etc. Still, this should give you and idea. In "real life" the '39 is a shade or more lighter than the Lyon. I've painted cars Jefferson Blue (a '39 color) and Lyon Blue (a '40 color) Lyon is a bit darker that Jefferson and certainly darker than Washington Blue.
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| Mick in Saratoga | -- 07-27-2013 @ 12:14 PM |
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Thanks for sharing all your knowledge Mike. I do appreciate it even if I'm not a purist. And I've already been introduced to some of the problems getting a good paint match. I tried to get my local paint supplier to mix up some Folkstone Gray touchup and they told me that they couldn't get one of the tints. Thanks again to everyone who added to the conversation.
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