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tedbill
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-- 03-30-2013 @ 10:56 AM
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Wondering if someone can help me identify my water pumps so I can buy replacements. I have a 34 Ford, but I know it is not the original engine so I'm trying to be careful I get the right thing. It has both a left and a right pump. One is marked with a 3004, the other is marked with a 3006. Both have a capital "A" stamped near the numbers. The valve covers have a "59 A-B" stamped on them.
Can anyone give me guidance on what pumps I need to buy, and suggest where to buy them?
Thank you in advance!
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JM
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-- 03-30-2013 @ 2:18 PM
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If you have a 59 series ('46-'48) engine it would use the water pumps made for '37 to '48 Flathead engines. I am not sure if the numbers you mention are correct for '37-'48 pumps but if they are original pumps for those years they would have a 78 prefix in front of the number on the casting. Most of the big parts suppliers like Drake, Carpenter, MAC's and Speedway now carry reproduction pumps like you need, however, I prefer to send good original core pumps to Skip Haney and have him rebuild them and use his high flow impellers for improved cooling.
JM
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JM
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-- 03-30-2013 @ 2:20 PM
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Remove duplicate post 
JM
This message was edited by JM on 3-30-13 @ 2:22 PM
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deuce_roadster
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-- 03-30-2013 @ 4:53 PM
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Never really thought of them that way but I guess they are "valve covers"!!
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supereal
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-- 03-30-2013 @ 7:29 PM
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If you have water pumps in the heads, with block off plates low on the front of the block, you have a late '37 or later engine. A 59AB engine will have 24 head studs on each side. I would opt for the new style turbine pumps, in any case. C&G, Drake, and others sell them. They increase coolant flow, always a good thing with a flathead.
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JM
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-- 03-31-2013 @ 6:27 AM
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Supereal, what defines a late '37 engine vs. early '37? I believe if he has '37 to early '38 he would have a 21 stud engine that could use '32-'36 heads with pumps and block off plates. Mid '38 and later would have 24 studs per head. If he has 59, 59A, or 59AB on heads, that should be a 24 stud engine.
JM
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tedbill
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-- 03-31-2013 @ 7:21 AM
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Thanks for all the feedback! For what it is worth, there are 24 bolt heads on both sides of the engine. I reached out to Skip Haney, I think I'll try that route first and see how it goes.
One follow up question, looking at the engine where the water pumps should be, I'm seeing rust inside the water channels. Not bad, just surface rust. Besides preping the sealing surface, should I do anything else to the coolant channels before installing the rebuilt pumps?
Thanks again for all the advice!
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supereal
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-- 03-31-2013 @ 11:01 AM
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JM: The poster said his engine was in a '34, but was vague and/or incorrect about just what he had. When we see a late engine in an earlier car, it raises questions about just what is there. The pump-in-head type were used until early '37 due to the usual Ford policy of using up existing stock, so some early '37s carried the early pumps. He mentions the number 3004/6 on his pumps, but the "family" number for Ford pumps is 8500. He then clarified the matter by stating that the heads were marked "59". After Ford issued the front pump type block as a "service" replacement, they were often fitted with the earlier type heads to preserve appearance and address the matter of front motor mounts if they were 21 stud type. Over the years. I've seen some pretty inventive "mix and match" Fords. He didn't state until later that he has 24 studs per side, and that does help pin down the answer. As for rust in the water jacket, there isn't much that can be done with the engine in the car. Anything stong enough to attack rust can destroy other parts of the system. When we do a rebuild, we boil the block and probe the jacket for core sand and loose rust, but cast iron does rust, particularly if plain water was used as a coolant without adding a rust inhibitor. Backflushing is mostly ineffective.
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47Fordor
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-- 03-31-2013 @ 12:57 PM
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supereal: I have a question in reference to "When we do a rebuild, we... probe the jacket for core sand and loose rust". I've heard of this before but was wondering what is normally used for the process. It sounds like something that could be done with a coat hanger but maybe I'm over-simplifying it. My engine is on a stand, sans heads and oil pan, waiting for me to come up with the $$ to get it somewhere to be boiled.
Chris
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JM
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-- 03-31-2013 @ 1:10 PM
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Supereal, he did state in his first message that "valve covers" meaning heads had "59 A-B" on them which = 24 studs.
I have never heard of or seen a '36 85HP engine used in the production of a '37 passenger car built in the USA. But, with over 800,000 passenger cars built during the '37 model year, in 17 factories and assembly plants, anything was possible.
JM
This message was edited by JM on 3-31-13 @ 2:36 PM
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JM
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-- 03-31-2013 @ 2:12 PM
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.
This message was edited by JM on 3-31-13 @ 2:13 PM
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supereal
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-- 03-31-2013 @ 9:16 PM
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Coat hanger wire is OK. We also use several long brushes designed primarily for cleaning oil galleries. We use a short piece of electrical "fish tape" in a drill if the deposits are severe. If the engine has been run recently, cleaning isn't usually a big deal. If the block came from salvage, or sat for a long time, it is necessary. Our hot tank will remove most of the crud, in most cases.
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deuce_roadster
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-- 03-31-2013 @ 10:06 PM
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Before I rebuild an engine I run the block (and if cast iron, the heads too) through a Redi-Strip process and what you get back is as clean as it could possibly be inside and out. NEVER had a problem with overheating with any engine I Redi-Stripped. If you have an engine completely apart and have a Redi-Strip franchise near you it is money well spent. My 2c.
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TomO
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-- 04-01-2013 @ 7:30 AM
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I found that a 3/16" wire cable used with an electric drill will get into most of the nooks and crannies and loosen the crud. I ran the drill in reverse to unwind the end of the cable giving it a brush effect.
Tom
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drkbp
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-- 04-01-2013 @ 8:51 PM
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Can't say that I ever saw an early ('32 to '36) 21 stud engine in a 1937 or later flat head car. However, I know most of you guys have seen many more V8's than I have.
Most of the time it is a '37 or later engine in a '32 to '36 car. I guess it is mostly due to being easier to find and rebuild the '37 21 stud + block off plates + add the pump in head. The only way to make an early car look correct. If you're not that concerned about whether it looks correct then the 24 stud is the way to go.
The other way around defeats the improvement of inserts and superior cooling that was the object of putting the pumps in the front of the block in the first place. I'm with JM on this one. Doubt that Ford would have made such a factory installation but no telling what happened under the old shade tree in the last 75 years. <grin>
On the cleaning issue, I just washed out my '35 engine when I put in two new thermostats and changed the front left motor mount several weeks ago. I painted that motor mount in 1975 and the paint is still on it inside. I had some rusty water that came out of the engine but not much else. I keep some antifreeze in it and drove it to the office today.
Ken in Texas
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