| 38tudorflatback | -- 01-11-2010 @ 2:50 PM |
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I recently bought a 37 Ford Coupe that was stored in a Milwaukee garage since 1974, complete with CA blackplates showing registration stickers from 1974. No title but the frame is stamped *18-3337548*. I wrote the CA DMV and they confirm the VIN is no longer in their system. WI will not issue a title without me surrendering one. How can I get a title for this correct VIN? Thanx in advance for any help!
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| supereal | -- 01-11-2010 @ 3:40 PM |
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I don't know about WI licensing laws, but here (in Iowa) we have what is called a "bonded title". When you apply for a new title, you place a modest amount in escrow, to be refunded at which time it is established that no title dispute has evolved. You are fortunate to have located a clear frame stamp, as it will probably be confirmed by a cursory inspection by a law officer. This sounds like red tape, and it is, but it protects you from a claim on the car, which happens more than one might think. In our jurisdiction, the DMV has been very helpful when we have had a title problem. Most DMV's don't retain much, if any, registration information that goes back more than a very few years, and will not even look at "title mill" documents.
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| 51f1 | -- 01-11-2010 @ 4:08 PM |
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Move to GA and you won't need a title. They did not issue titles before a date in the '60s and do not require and will not issue one for any vehicle manufactured before that date. All I had to do when I finished my restoration was to have a police officer verify my engine number, and they issued me a tag. That's the way it should be everywhere. Richard
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| trjford8 | -- 01-11-2010 @ 7:28 PM |
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Check and see how they handle a "lost title". If the car is clear in Calif.(no record on file)then there is probably no record on the car anywhere else.There has to be a way to get a title on the car by filing a lost title claim with the DMV.People lose titles when they move or when a car is in an estate, etc. You may have to tell them you have owned the car for X number of years and you cannot find the title. Do not show them the Calif. plates. Another way to get title is through a lien sale. I'm sure you can do this in your state. Tell them the car was abandoned on your property by a renter and you need to get title so you can sell it and recoupe some lost rent. DMV wants your money, so if you go there with a fistfull of it, you will leave with a title.Govt.has a huge appetite for $
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| larryb346 | -- 01-11-2010 @ 8:04 PM |
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trjford8 Not sure where you live but here in Missouri and I am sure all 50 states that is called fraud. Sorry you feel that is a lawful thing to recommend to anyone, lie to government officials. Just my 2 cents worth
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| mdadisman | -- 01-11-2010 @ 9:18 PM |
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Here is the phone number of a person in Sacramento,CA that can possibly help you with your problem. The name is Professional Registration Services and their number is 916-443-5679. They should be able to walk you through the process to get a lost title for your car. Michael
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 01-12-2010 @ 6:23 AM |
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in MAINE if you have a hand writtern bill of sale, they accept it and will issue you plates,being the car is before 1980,[ its a matter of them trusting you,we do this at the borough hall is our DMV,dies that plus more,] I would go to DMV with the hand writtern bill of sale ,talk directly to the person in charge,they will know more than someone behind the counter, and will tell you what you might have to do to get a title, you might have to have it authorized by a Notary Public,have it stamped. hope this helps, let hear how you made out, 37RAGTOPMAN
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| TomO | -- 01-12-2010 @ 6:50 AM |
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The seller of the car can obtain a replacement title by following the procedure on this web site. http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/drivers/vehicles/title/replace.htm Tom
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| wmsteed | -- 01-12-2010 @ 9:40 AM |
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The info posted by Tomo is probably going to be your best source to obtain a clear title for the '37. You should probably omit mentioning that the car has California plates... just go with the VIN on the frame because it appears to be correct for a '37 Ford. The seller of the vehicle probably has the best chance of getting a replacement title in WI because they can truthfully state that they have "owned" the vehicle since 1974. It might be interesting to find out why someone would park a vehicle with out of state registration in a garage in WI since 1974... but then again it just could be that the car has doubtful lineage? When the VIN actually hits a data base, it just could possibility turn out to be a stolen car. A vehicle normally falls off of the California system in six years, however, if the car was ever listed as being stolen, it is in a national data base, which never goes away until the vehicle is recovered. Undocumented vehicles are becoming a big deal in many states because of a big rise in theft as a result of high scrap prices and the Rat Rod craze. Idaho can require the search of all adjoining state records for undocumented vehicles. California is also getting very touchy about the subject, requiring two VIN location verifications and/or VIN and data plate verification. Bill 36 5 win delx cpe
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| supereal | -- 01-12-2010 @ 3:20 PM |
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You just can't be too careful. I once received a car in lieu of payment for damage to one of our trucks. The fellow swore he had never titled it, but we found five liens from his use of the car as collateral for loans. In this day of scam after scam, third party escrow is a good move when dealing with an unknown "seller".
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| MTLott | -- 01-13-2010 @ 3:46 AM |
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"... and they confirm the VIN is no longer in their system." Here's what's happening and should serve notice to those of us with old, stored cars. The "system." Everyone is converting their DMV records from paper to computer data bases. I can only speak for Florida, but holding a title for an old car and not registering it (putting a tag on it) is flirting with "... it's no longer in the system." Many states will view titles without current registrations as dead titles and not worth the cost of converting them into the new data base. I know many guys sitting on old cars WITH titles that are going to face some extra red tape. While having a title should remain proof of ownership, the fact that it no longer appears "in the system" will be a problem, and it could be declared invalid. In 38tudorflatback's situation, his post states that California does not have records and that Wisconsin evidently does not either. (Applying for a "lost title" in Wisconsin is not going to help if one never existed. And, Wisconsin is probably not too keen on issuing titles for cars that have no proof/line of ownership ... it'd be stolen car heaven.) That's not the case everywhere as 51f1 said. Georgia and Alabama ... especially Alabama ... make registering old cars a cake walk. If you live in Alabama, you can just go to the courthouse and buy a tag without showing the car. You can then sell the car with a bill of sale and that tag registration slip to someone in Wisconsin ... and Wisconsin will issue a title. Go figure. (That was Broadway Title's deal on creating sales paperwork ... which a number of states are refusing.) But, you have to live in Alabama first. Anyhow, register/tag your old cars and protect the titles. Many states have some type of permanent tag that does not require renewal ... like Florida. Buying old titles to use on your car is starting to get a little risky as well, so be advised. ... and study. http://www.legis.state.wi.us/Statutes/Stat0342.pdf Have to add one thing, 51f1 said, "Move to GA and you won't need a title..... That's the way it should be everywhere." I live in northern Florida, and it isn't real comforting to know that someone can steal one of my cars, slip right across the border and sooooo easily get a title or the necessary paperwork to get one from just about any state. In fact, an Alabama resident could take 38tudorflatback's ID number and register it in Alabama and possibly claim the car. Now THAT would be interesting. This message was edited by MTLott on 1-13-10 @ 5:47 AM
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| wmsteed | -- 01-13-2010 @ 9:25 AM |
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The state of Alabama, and several other southern states are or were the capitol of the undocumented car world because of the lack of consistent vehicle titling.... Not so any more. A friend of mine purchased a '39 Plym conv. cpe with a notarized Bill of Sale from Alabama a few years ago. Upon trying to get the car titled in California, California rejected everything for several reasons. 1. The VIN on the B of S was not correct for a '39 Plym. 2. The VIN on the vehicle did not match the paper work. 3. California does not honor out of state Bill of Sales on undocumented vehicles with no actual license plates and registration. It took us two years and stacks of paper work to get the ownership cleared up. I recently encountered a similar problem on a '39 Plym conv. cpe that was purchased in Tenn by a fellow in Australia. The purchaser of the vehicle contacted me about some parts for the car because I have a '39 Plym conv cpe and I am known as somewhat of an authority on that car. During the course of our conversation I asked about the VIN and body number. The Aussie was very surprised that I would ask such a question... I responded that I did not want to see him have a problem when he tried to export the car from the US, and/or import the car to AUS. By the time I was able to sort the numbers out via a data base I have on ChyCo cars. the car had been shipped from Tenn and was sitting in a bonded warehouse in California awaiting shipment to AUS. The VIN and body numbers on the vehicle were for a '39 Plym 4 dr sdn not a conv. cpe. When the person that sold the car was contacted and the facts were presented to him, he claimed he had two '39's, the conv. and a sdn, which he was going to restore, then changed his mind. By mistake he got the ID tags mixed up.... Ya, sure, why had he removed the ID tags from the cars?... I think he intended to keep the conv, ID tags for a future use of some kind. In the past I have been very lax about keeping the registration up to date on my '36 Ford cpe. If and when I decided to drive the car I would just go into the DMV, fill out a Non-Op statement and secure valid registration. Everything changed when CA passed the dereliet vehicle law in about 1983, e.g. current registration and/or a valid Non-Operation certificate must be maintained on a vehicle or it is subject to tow or penalties. After a while the penalties can exceed the value of the vehicle. When I finally got around to renewing the registration on the '36 I was told I would have to have the car inspected and the VIN verified. I would also have to surrender the black CA plates on the car....I walked out of the DMV...... Since I only drive the car occausionaly, the car stayed unregistered for over twenty years. In 2006 I decided to get the registration up to date and put 1936 CA YOM plates on the car. When the DMV wanted to know the date of purchase, I put down the actual date, September 10, 1952, date the vehicle entered CA, April 1956.... the DMV wanted proof so I went home. I got all of the expired registration cards out of the glove box and took same back to the DMV..... The registration was brought up to date with no penalties and no inspection/verifications, and I got to keep my black CA plates on the car. Bill 36 5 win delx cpe
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| 38tudorflatback | -- 01-13-2010 @ 4:08 PM |
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Thanx to all that have helped! It has been frustrating the last few days as I have consulted the WI DMV local and State, my local PD, a buddy at the Milwaukee FBI even tried to help!!(Go Figure?)So I am back to dealing with the state of WI who all seam to be mad at their jobs! One help came from my county Sherriffs who inspected the the frame to certify it was the correct numbers on the frame and they matched a 37 Ford Passenger Vehicle. I got that goin for me! And a letter from CA stating they have no records against the car, but no history either. I'm goin the legal route, so wish me luck!!! ALSO, anybody out there got some or know where I can buy a pair of trunk hinges? We cannot seam to locate them!
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| TomO | -- 01-14-2010 @ 7:57 AM |
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Get the person who sold you the car involved. That person profited by selling you the car and should be willing to get you proper documentation for registering the car in your name. Tom
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