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V8JR
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-- 12-19-2012 @ 8:18 PM
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I am rebuilding my '39 Steering box/column. Can't figure out how the horn will work. The Light Sw rod is inserted into the middle of steering shaft. The horn relay requires a ground to activate the horn relay. It seems that sw rod, which has the horn button incorporated into it, will always be grounded through contact with the steering shaft and steering box making the horn sound all the time. Think this horn button/Lt Sw setup was used 28 through 39. Can anyone shed any light how this system works with out the horn sounding all the time? Jimbo
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ford38v8
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-- 12-19-2012 @ 9:03 PM
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Jimbo, the grounding wire that activates the relay travels up the horn/light rod to the horn button, which is itself isolated from ground until it is depressed, thereby completing the circuit to ground.
Alan
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V8JR
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-- 12-19-2012 @ 9:49 PM
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Alan - It seems like the horn/light rod would be in contact with the steering shaft thus making a ground connection since the steering/box shaft is grounded. What am I missing. Thanks for the reply - Jimbo
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ford38v8
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-- 12-19-2012 @ 10:29 PM
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Jimbo, The wire is insulated, and is connected to the horn button, which does not touch ground until it its depressed.
Incidentally, the starter button on your dash board also works that same way, grounding to the dashboard when you push the button.
Alan
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kubes40
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-- 12-20-2012 @ 6:30 AM
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Jimbo, my guess is you are over thinking this one 
The horn rod ends within the wiring bale at the end of your steering gear box. Within that bale is a spring loaded terminal, smack dab in the center. The wire from the relay is connected to that spring loaded terminal. When you depress the horn button you are in effect creating the closed circuit (the ground). The rod from the horn button does not touch the steering column tube. Actually the only thing that touches is the back of the button when depressed. That's why it is important to be certain the mating surfaces within the steering wheel hub are free from paint.
Guess how I learned that???
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V8JR
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-- 12-20-2012 @ 8:36 PM
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Thanks so much to all - I have a clearer picture and I probably am "overthinking" this. Did not realize that a wire ran inside the light switch rod - all makes since now - Jimbo
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kubes40
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-- 12-21-2012 @ 6:20 AM
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The wiring does NOT run within the light switch rod. The rod itself acts as the wire.
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40 Coupe
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-- 12-21-2012 @ 7:14 AM
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Check the bottom of the rod and you will see an insulator that isolates the insulated horn wire, inside the rod, from ground or contact with the outside of the horn rod, as well as a contact at the very bottom of the insulator. At the top of the rod, under the horn button is another insulator to ensure the insulated wire inside the rod does not touch the rod itself and on top of that insulator is another electrical contact. when the horn button is depressed it touches the top contact sending it to ground potential. Before assembly of the rod place an ohmmeter across the two contacts for continuity and also from one of the contacts to the outside of the rod for isolation from ground.
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MG
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-- 12-21-2012 @ 11:38 AM
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See the horn wire which runs INSIDE the horn rod/tube here: http://macsautoparts.com/early-v8-ford-mercury-horn-rod-wire-repair-kit-4-pieces-ford-a3616rk/camid/F30/cp/JS0R3CHL1074091/
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kubes40
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-- 12-21-2012 @ 1:42 PM
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see the horn wire which runs INSIDE the horn rod/tube here:
What's this have to do with the authentic configuration? Nothing that I can see...
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MG
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-- 12-21-2012 @ 2:00 PM
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In the "authentic configuration" THERE IS an insulated wire which runs INSIDE the horn-rod/tube. I recently had to replace this wire in my original, unrestored '37 and I used this repair kit to do so......
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ford38v8
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-- 12-21-2012 @ 5:23 PM
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Watt we have heeah... is a fail-ya to c'municate!
Alan
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trjford8
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-- 12-21-2012 @ 6:29 PM
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MG you are correct. The horn wire does run inside of the tube and is isolated so the button sends it to ground.
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kubes40
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-- 12-22-2012 @ 6:10 AM
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Really? There's a wire inside the small tube (rod)? I learnt sumpin today. Thanks guys! Man, for the life of me I never saw that wire.
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trjford8
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-- 12-22-2012 @ 6:36 AM
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Mike, the end of the wire in the tube has a flat contact on the end (much like a tubular rivet). The wire is crimped into the contact on the back side. You have to look closely to see the isolator( phenolic) which is a "stepped" sleeve that goes up inside the tube. The end under the horn button is set up the same as a '40.
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kubes40
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-- 12-22-2012 @ 7:22 AM
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I fell like a dumba-- as I'd never noticed this. I have restored numerous 39's and fortunately (luck?)the horns have always worked properly.
Still, I feel bad that I have over looked this in past projects. I won't overlook it again!
Thanks.
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Stroker
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-- 12-22-2012 @ 8:52 AM
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Kube: We all appreciate your humility. What makes this Forum one of "the highest order", is
the professionalism displayed by most of the participants. It is certainly understandable that
you would not see that cleverly embedded wire unless you were troubleshooting a continuity issue. Early Fords tend to conceal their "elegant workings", which is what separates them from their more primitive contemporary competitors. I've always felt that the modular coil,dual point distributor with visible wires only reluctantly emerging from the spark plug looms to be
an almost "take that", statement to Che*rolet and Pl*mouth. Hiding the valve chest under the intake manifold, and sneaking the exhaust out through the bottom of the block are other examples.
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ford38v8
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-- 12-22-2012 @ 11:12 AM
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Stroker, how could you forget the single most crucial piece of ingenuity on the early Ford car? The knee action guys spend hours pondering the question of how Ford's excess oil automatic release system works. They like to twiddle the cotter key so much, a true Ford guy is embarrassed to watch them.
Alan
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trjford8
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-- 12-22-2012 @ 4:45 PM
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Hey Mike, all of us learn something new about an old Ford almost weekly. The learning never stops and that is what makes the hobby fun and interesting.
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kubes40
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-- 12-23-2012 @ 6:08 AM
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I couldn't agree more. With as many cars as I've restored that have reached 997+, I continue to learn. I am thankful to all that have taught me as I truly enjoy the learning process.
The more I research for the '40 book, the more I find we as a Club have accepted many untruths.
I have already documented a number of items that clash with our long held beliefs of correct vs. incorrect in our '40 restoration efforts.
Merry Christmas to all!!!
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