| joe shell | -- 12-07-2012 @ 5:35 PM |
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I recently purchased a 36 cabrilet restored mostly to original. After parking the car in my garage, I left the ignition switch in the on position. The next day the battery, a six volt optima, was dead. I charged the battery and the car started right up with no problems. This car has some hesitation when starting in first gear and when shifting into second at say 15 mph. It seems to sputter under load at low rpm. As the rpm increases at higher speeds the engine runs smoothly. Could leaving the key on and killing the battery have caused damage to the points and/or coil? I assume the points were closed when I left the ignition on otherwise the battery would not have drained. Is this correct? Is there an easy way to check the coil? Thanks for any suggestions.
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| 1934 Ford | -- 12-07-2012 @ 6:47 PM |
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Joe, I did the same thing on my 34 and melted the coil. When I asked the coil re-builder how that happened, he said "you must have put a charger on the battery with the ignition switch on". I'm now more attentive to charging batteries. If an open circuit can do that, it could have done your damage too. Must have somting to do with whether the points are fully closed or not.
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| fla48 | -- 12-07-2012 @ 7:05 PM |
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Joe, 34 Ford is correct. Fried the coil on my 48 by forgetting to turn off the ignition after I finished working on the car. Probably did not hurt your points, just need a new coil.
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| 40 Coupe | -- 12-08-2012 @ 2:47 AM |
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You should have to turn the ignition off to get the car to stop running. To me your symptoms appear to lead to the carburetor accelerator pump, not the distributor or coil. Pushing the gas pedal down should result in a fairly strong stream of gas being added to the fuel mixture, so the car accelerates without hesitation. You should have a Stromberg 97 Carb. on your 36 Cabrolet. Stromberg is still making the best parts for the Carb. This message was edited by 40 Coupe on 12-8-12 @ 2:48 AM
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| supereal | -- 12-08-2012 @ 6:44 AM |
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Many, if not all of us, have forgotten to turn the ignition off, and cooked the coil. The coil's insulation is breached, causing shorts between the windings. This lowers the output, causing the performance problems mentioned, sort of like having bad spark plugs. Plan to replace the points, as it is probable that they have been turned blue by the prolonged current flow. Long ago, I installed a master cutoff switch on my battery, in case my old memory lapsed. When charging an Optima battery, it must be done very slowly. They are great batteries, but complete discharge can damage them, making full recharge unlikely.
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| Stroker | -- 12-08-2012 @ 7:08 AM |
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A completely discharged Optima can often be brought "back to life" by hooking it up in parallel with a good battery (lead-acid ok) during charging. This allows the charger to "sense" a load and deliver a charging current. Dead Optima's act like an open circuit, and won't provide a load for the charger. After charging for about 30 minutes, you can remove the good battery and the Optima should continue to charge on its' own. This has "saved" quite a few supposedly junk Optimas. Super's advice about charging rates, should be followed, as it is easy to damage any AGM battery by charging too fast. For the truly paranoid, Optima makes a dedicated charger that is pricey but designed just to charge AGM's.
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| joe shell | -- 12-08-2012 @ 11:58 AM |
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Thanks to all for your input. I bought a new set of points and distributor gaskets which I hope to install next week. I will also swap out the coil with a known good one. As I think about this hesitation problem, I'm not sure it was caused by me leaving the ignitio on. It is quite possible that I had the hesitation before I left the ignition on overnight, can't remember. That did kill the battery for sure, so It is probable that some damage was done to the points. When I charged the 6 V Optima battery I did so at 6 amps and it took 12 to 15 hours to bring it to full charge. that was two weeks ago. I'm sure the ignition was off during the charging. The battery has been fine and the car starts instantly. i checked one plug and it was black sooty. Gas mileage has been terrible at about 7 mpg, so I probably have multiple problems.
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| TomO | -- 12-10-2012 @ 2:22 PM |
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Joe, I believe that you cooked your coil. Check the spark at idle, it should be at least 1/2" and blue in color. Tom
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| joe shell | -- 12-12-2012 @ 5:02 PM |
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Thanks for the suggestion Tom. I just checked the spark by running a screwdriver from the top of the spark plug to the head. Got a good blueish white spark. Took the car for a ride today and it went 60 mph. I plan on changing the points to see if that helps with the hesitation problem, but not familiar with the 1936 distributor.
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| supereal | -- 12-12-2012 @ 8:01 PM |
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The best diagnostic tool to cure hesitation is a vacuum gauge. If you don't have a symptom chart, i'll post one.
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| joe shell | -- 12-13-2012 @ 6:18 AM |
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Thanks Super, please post.
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| TomO | -- 12-13-2012 @ 7:12 AM |
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Joe, it is unlikely that your points are causing a hesitation problem. Changing the points without setting and checking them on a distributor machine can cause more problems. The points available today seem to have more problems with quality than they did when these cars were newer. Tension is often very weak, leading to point bounce, shorts between the movable contact and ground have shown up in several sets. The distributor machine will also allow an experienced operator to check for wear in the bushings and binds in the centrifugal advance. Hesitation could be caused by carburetor problems or advance problem in the distributor. Tom
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| joe shell | -- 12-13-2012 @ 7:16 AM |
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Thanks Super, please post.
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| supereal | -- 12-13-2012 @ 9:16 AM |
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OK, Joe, here it is. The vacuum gauge is a fine diagnostic tool for older engines, those before the advent of the computer controlled variety. It must be connected to "raw" intake vacuum, such as the point where windshield wipers are fed. The later engines, with vacuum only distributors, draw their vacuum from a port above the throttle plate, making it unsuitable for the test. At our shop, we have an array of very complicated (and costly) scanners for the newer vehicles, but the good old vacuum gauge beats them all for old cars and trucks.
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| joe shell | -- 12-15-2012 @ 12:28 PM |
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Thanks to all for your sugestions. Today an old v8 friend suggested checking the plugs. I pulled about 5 plugs and the all looked good to me. They are Champion UD 16. They were a little black around the base of the plug, but the electrodes were a very light gray except for one plug where the electrode was light tan. Could these plugs be causing my hesitation/sputtering problem? What are the best plugs to run in a 36 LB engine if the car has a radio? Currently the radio plays great with the UD 16 plugs.
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| 1934 Ford | -- 12-15-2012 @ 4:49 PM |
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Joe, Search spark plugs for early V8's, lots of talk on this on this Forum. I understood Champion the UD-16 was the same as the D-16, but with an extra gap in the electrode. This caused the UD-16 to weaken the spark. (Making the low sparke problem worse) I quit using it and went back to the D-16 and my early V8's ran better. Then I learned the D-16 was a lawnmower plug and switched to the Autolite 386. Autolite 386 runs better and lasts lots longer without fouling. Some of the technical guys can tell us why.
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| supereal | -- 12-15-2012 @ 8:18 PM |
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The usual reason the ignition is left on is either the engine stalled as it was being parked or, more often, a radio was left on. We usually wire radios, etc, directly to a battery source, not thru the switch. It won't prevent leaving these on, but it does protect the coil if the ignition switch is off. If you have an electrically wound clock, it is a good idea to remove the fuse when the car is stored if you don't have a master battery switch.
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| joe shell | -- 12-16-2012 @ 2:41 AM |
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Thanks for the input. I think I will change the points. Got to learn sooner or later, and I have a new set of points. Only problem is that I never removed a distributor from a 36 Ford before. Back in the fifties I had several 49-51 Fords and it was easy to change the points with simple tools and a feeler gauge. I have some friends from the Long Island RG coming over on Tuesday to help remove the distributor. One of them has done this job before probably on his 36 Cabriolet. He takes the distributor out from the top, but to me it appears easier to drop it down. The car does not have the original coil. It has the three screw adapter plate on top of the distributor and an ordinary coil mounted on the cylinder head. If anyone has suggestions on the best way to remove this distributor, I would appreciate hearing from you. I guess I should start a new thread regarding coil removal on a 36. Thanks for comments and suggestions. This message was edited by joe sh*ll on 12-16-12 @ 6:23 AM
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