| Gary M. | -- 10-03-2012 @ 4:30 PM |
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Hi guys. My question is about the famous crankcase vent triangle on the front of the engine. Is it removable for cleaning ? I attempted to remove it but I dont want to break anything. I remoced 4 of the oil pan bolts but thats about all. If its not removable then how do you clean it? Thanks guys...
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| kubes40 | -- 10-03-2012 @ 5:01 PM |
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It is not removable. Clean it? Why? I have seen some pretty nasty engines and the vent (on the pan) was still able to breathe.
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| Gary M. | -- 10-03-2012 @ 5:44 PM |
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I am told that this opening is an important part of the crankcase breather system and can cause excessive blowby if it is clogged.
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| ford38v8 | -- 10-03-2012 @ 6:41 PM |
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Ya, so good reason to save your four-wheelin' to the mudders! Alan
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| Old Henry | -- 10-04-2012 @ 4:56 AM |
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The opening is pretty big and it's hard to imagine it actually being plugged up. But, if you want to clean it you could squirt some engine degreaser or carburetor cleaner up into it and swab it out with a rag. Don't know why you would though. That vent is to draw the blow by gases out of the crankcase and valve compartment to reduce contamination of the oil by the contaminants and moisture created by the blow by. It does not increase or decrease blow by, even if totally plugged. The more important part of that system to keep clean is the breather/oil filler cap where the air goes in. As the small draw of air out of the bottom vent does not create a great vacuum to suck air into that breather cap it is important to keep it clean to allow the fresh air to enter there for the ventilation system. Old Henry (The older I get, the better old looks.)
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| Gary M. | -- 10-05-2012 @ 6:28 PM |
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I would assume that with the pistons going up and down that air will be going both in and out of the top vent oil fill cap as well as the triangle vent on the oil pan. I know that on the older Fords there is an air scoop which I guess would catch air from the engine fan and push the crankcase fumes out of the bottom vent. I wonder why Ford did away with this scoop? Would cleaning that oil fill cap be part of regular maintenance back in the day ? Im just looking for a way to get that smoke out of the engine a bit quicker so that it doesnt stink up the car and my garage. aside from a ring job , any ideas guys ? Thanks....
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| supereal | -- 10-05-2012 @ 7:19 PM |
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Smoke and fumes have plagued old Fords almost from the beginning. That led to an aftermarket device that fit into the oil filler and had a long flexible metal tube that channeled the stuff under the car where the slipstream whisked it away. The oil pan vent was supposed to pull air into the oil filler cap and release it under the car. It didn't work really well, and was replaced by a vent tube in the last flatheads. You are correct that the fumes are largely blowby around the rings and valve guides. Fiddling with crankcase venting is a crutch, and the only sure cure is an overhaul or a gas mask.
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| ford38v8 | -- 10-05-2012 @ 8:27 PM |
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Gary, you can install a PCV valve. Draws the smoke into the air filter and to the carburetor. Benefits the air quality and give you a little better gas mileage. Alan This message was edited by ford38v8 on 10-5-12 @ 8:28 PM
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| Stroker | -- 10-06-2012 @ 7:52 AM |
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When we serviced our "fleet" of Flatheads in the Fifties, we always washed the oil filler cap in Stoddard solvent (very similar to today's "mineral spirits", followed by a light oiling with a pistol oiler of the mesh inside. The bottom vent was supposed to pull the fumes out the bottom, and fresh air was supposed to come in through the filler cap, with any dust or debris being filtered by the mesh in the cap. I say "supposed", because as Super has stated, it didn't work very well; and probably not at all on our stationary engines. We switched most over to Fram forced ventilation (which used a small heater type motor and blower) in the later years. The claim was that it kept the oil cleaner, since it forced the fumes out of the crankcase. I'd question whether adding a PCV valve would have any effect on fuel mileage, unless you consider crankcase fumes: (moisture, acids, and carbon particulates) to be a fuel source.
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| MG | -- 10-06-2012 @ 8:02 PM |
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Gary M., Click on this link: http://www.jamcosuspension.com/products/productID/1504 I'm sure this will be of interest to you and is probably what you are seeking......MG P.S. Be sure to click on the 'Downloads PCV4953 Install Instructions' at this site. Ooops - never mind. This kit is for an 8BA. But, maybe you could adapt it for your purpose..... This message was edited by MG on 10-6-12 @ 8:18 PM
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| Gary M. | -- 10-07-2012 @ 8:17 AM |
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I would like to know where to purchase one of these Fram forced air PCV system. Are they still available? I searched EBAY with no results but im not sure that im wording the name of the product correctly. Any ideas guys. Thanks....
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| Stroker | -- 10-07-2012 @ 8:51 AM |
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Gary: Like you, I searched for one just so I could show you what they looked like. I didn't come up with anything, and I'm sure no one makes the screw-on dry paper element today anyway. The lack of anything modern that is equivalent is because they were "environmentally incorrect". That is, they did a great job of cleaning up the leftovers inside the engine, and forced them out into the atmosphere. I'm not sure that the modern concept of forcing them back into the engine to be burned is environmentally better, but it is the "correct" approach. If you put one of these on a California car today, you'd probably have your "vintage exemption" cancelled, and have to install air pumps, cat converters and all the rest (just kidding). I only mentioned them, because they were a solution to the often overlooked issue of getting the baddies out of the innards.
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| ford38v8 | -- 10-07-2012 @ 10:41 AM |
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MG, Did you happen to notice the Jamco instruction where it says to: "Make sure the hole in the manifold is cleaned of all sharp edges. Use a file or reamer for this." Ouch! I wonder how many guys would just blindly follow those instructions! Alan
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| Gary M. | -- 10-07-2012 @ 11:29 AM |
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Well, as far as environmentally friendly, no car out there that was built before 1970 is. However, there arent many still on the road these days. I would like to look a bit further for that Fram power PCV system before I give up.Maybe Ill put a want ad in the v8 times. In the mean time if anyone hears of one up for grabs please let me know. Thanks....
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| Stroker | -- 10-07-2012 @ 11:55 AM |
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Well, I haven't seen one since I moved away from the old homestead 46 years ago, but I'll describe it as follows: The motor was small, about the size of a power antenna/power window motor. It was mounted to a small squirrel-cage housing about 4-inches in diameter, with a threaded inlet that mounted a metal screw-in filter cartridge about the size of a small coffee mug. The motor and housing were painted black, and the disposable filter housing was Fram orange with holes punched around the outside. The outlet was about the size of a heater hose, and led to a replacement oil-filler cap that was designed to hold the discharge pressure,forcing the filtered air into the oil-filler/breather pipe. The power was taken off the ignition feed, with an inline fuse so that the little blower ran whenever there was power to the ignition. The motor had a bracket that allowed it to be secured by one of the intake manifold bolts. We used these on all our cars and trucks, 9 wind machines and several other stationary units. In later years, Technically, this is called an "open system". Caterpillar in recent years developed a similar electric blower system that ultimately forced the discharge from the draft tube outlet back into the intake tract on non-turbocharged diesel applications, adapting the forced-draft venting to a more acceptable "closed system". This message was edited by Stroker on 10-7-12 @ 3:18 PM
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| Gary M. | -- 10-07-2012 @ 4:45 PM |
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Thanks for that great description. Does this item have an exact name in which to research it by. Thanks...
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| supereal | -- 10-07-2012 @ 8:17 PM |
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The PCV system has to be carefully calibrated for the application. Otherwise it will interfere with the intake manifold vacuum, producing performance problems. Too often, it seems easier, and cheaper, to treat the symptoms instead of the cause. If you plan to drive the car extensively, it makes sense to fix it properly.
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| Stroker | -- 10-08-2012 @ 8:14 AM |
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Gary M: Fram called it a "Positive Crankcase Ventilator". If you Go to Google Books, you can find an original advertisement in Popular Science, March 1950, page 260.
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| Gary M. | -- 10-09-2012 @ 6:38 PM |
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I looked at that ad in popular science and it was very interesting. I also looked on ebay for one like it but only found a mechanism made by oildex. I will keep my eyes open for one over the winter, maybe Ill get lucky. Thanks for the great info guys....
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