| tbirdhandyman | -- 09-13-2012 @ 1:07 PM |
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I am going to change out the rear crankshaft oil seals in a 59 AB block with a 4" Mercury crankshaft, and after removing the rear main cap and backing off on the front and center main caps, I cannot get the crankshaft to drop down at the rear. Is there a trick to this? I used a pry bar on the counter shaft weights, but it only turns the assemble, not lowering it for access to the top rear seal. Thanks for any help. This engine is in my '41 Mercury convertible. Robert E. Tbirdhandyman
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| Stroker | -- 09-13-2012 @ 2:53 PM |
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The crankshaft cannot drop down "at the rear" because you have 8 connecting rods holding it in perfect alignment with the crankshaft axis. Don't force it, as you could damage the rod bearings. You must move the crankshaft exactly parallel to its' axis, which will require more than simply "backing-off" the center and front mains.
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| tbirdhandyman | -- 09-14-2012 @ 8:55 AM |
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Stroker: thanks for the reply. I backed the nuts off so only 2 turns was holding the front and middle caps, giving about 1/4" clearance that would allow the crankshaft to drop along its axis. I then rotated the crankshaft and so far, the crankshaft has not dropped. What do you suggest that will lower the crankshaft? Tbirdhandyman
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| Stroker | -- 09-14-2012 @ 12:09 PM |
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The only times I've replaced an upper rear main seal was when I have had the engine on a stand, and the crank out of the block. I have never attempted this with the rods connected. The problems you are confronted with are due to the oil film on the upper main bearings, combined with the fact that in order to drop the crank, all 8 pistons have to slide the same amount at the same time, so you are in-effect dragging at least 32 piston rings simultaneously. I'd disconnect all the rods before I tried to separate the crank from the block.
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| supereal | -- 09-14-2012 @ 5:36 PM |
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Trying to replace the rear seal with the engine in the car is not possible. You have to get clearance to remove the upper seal carrier.
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| Stroker | -- 09-15-2012 @ 6:10 AM |
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Thanks Super. I was trying to avoid the "impossible" statement, as some people have developed impractical shortcuts that I have never personally attempted.
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| tbirdhandyman | -- 09-15-2012 @ 10:50 AM |
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Super: Thanks for jumping in on this. My block does have part #91A-6335, pot metal upper rear crank seal and I have read that this part could be bad. The rear main cap in my engine is #21A-6325, which has the lower rear crank seal (19B-3663) cast into it. This part number is not listed in either the '50's Green Book or the 39/48 Mercury chassis parts catalog. I guess that after 70 years there is no telling what parts are in these engines. The leak has gotten so bad that my wife's car was covered in oil after following me from a 50 mile car show trip. Regards, Tbirdhandyman
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| supereal | -- 09-15-2012 @ 12:15 PM |
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My green book shows the number for the lower seal packing as 19B-6336, and the packing as 91A-6347. The seal carrier, 91A-6335, holds the packing. Unless it is damaged, it probably doen't need to be replaced. If you engine is leaking oil that bad, I'd also look somewhere else. I've seen oil leaks at the back of the engine from the oil pressure sender, the oilpump drive gear gasket, and from overfilling the pan. If the seal wasn't properly installed, and didn't have the ends cemented, it could leak, but it is usually a drip, rather than the gusher you mention. Any leak at the rear of the engine is hard to pin down if it runs down or through the flywheel housing. There is also a pipe plug behind the flywheel that seals tha oil gallery. If it wasn't sealed and tightened, it will leak badly. I have assumed you removed the transmission before attempting to drop the crank. The transmission pilot fits into the flywheel, preventing it from dropping. I would hope the prying on the crank hasn't damaged the pilot bearing, the clutch, or input shaft. That much leakage has probably ruined the clutch disk facing, in any case. Look at the C&G catalog online (cgfordparts.com) It shows the parts you need in Section 11. This message was edited by supereal on 9-16-12 @ 5:53 AM
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| tbirdhandyman | -- 09-19-2012 @ 11:20 AM |
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Super, I value your experience over the printed instructions I received with the GraphTite rear seal kit from C&G. They say "do not apply sealant on rope ends". Please tell what brand of sealant you use, and that is what I will use. I can't explain why I thought I could change this seal with the engine in the car, but maybe a hint would be that I am a member of the EFV-8 "80 Club". Regards, Robert E. Tbirdhandyman
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| supereal | -- 09-19-2012 @ 3:16 PM |
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We use a dab of Permatex non hardening sealer. Avoid RTVsilicone, as it can cause problems if it gets into the oil stream. If the seal is correct size, it shouldn't have to be trimmed. Forcing the seal into the carrier swells it a bit, increasing its effectiveness. Be sure to check the other possibilities for leakage in my earlier post. Normally, oil doesn't gush from a rear seal. Drip, yes, that is why you can spot an old car garage from the layers of cardboard on the floor! As a certified old coot myself, I understand the drawbacks of the socalled "golden years".
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| tbirdhandyman | -- 09-27-2012 @ 12:14 PM |
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Super: I have installed the new rear main seals and today I removed the flywheel (I made a puller from an old Ford pressure plate assembly) and I was expecting to find a pipe plug around the camshaft area that oil could be leaking from. Instead, I have a kidney shaped plate approximately 5" X 3.5" that is secured by 5 bolts (with a tie wire). Oil has been leaking from this plate and running down the front of the flywheel and out the drain hole. My clutch did not get any oil on it, as I think that I caught it just in time. This plate has a bronze looking shaft (3/4" Dia) that is flush with the plate. Is it okay to remove this plate and make a new gasket for it? None of my old Ford books shows this plate. Regards, Robert E. Tbirdhandyman
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| 51f1 | -- 09-27-2012 @ 1:21 PM |
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You are probably talking about the oil pump drive gear cover. You can remove this cover and replace the gasket. The area behind the cover houses the idler gear that drives the oil pump. The idler gear is driven by a gear on the end of the camshaft. The area that houses the idler gear is where the oil is pumped before it is distributed to the bearings, etc. While you are in there, remove the shaft and gear and check them and the bushing in the gear for wear. The shaft is held in place by the cover pressing on it, so be sure that the replacement gasket is the right thickness. Lock washers are used on the bolts instead of safety wires to hold the cover in place on later model engines. Richard This message was edited by 51f1 on 9-27-12 @ 1:29 PM
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| supereal | -- 09-27-2012 @ 3:49 PM |
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Robert: The part number for the oil drive cover gasket is 18-6659-B. I don't see it in any of my catalogs, but I'd try C&G (800/266-0470) as they probably have it, although it doesn't show in their new catalog. You can make a gasket, using the plate as a template, from material available at most good parts stores. As the oil pump drive runs in the engine oil flow, it may not be worn. If the plate shows wear from being loose, the part number is 18-6616 at C&G. The oil gallery pipe plug has a recessed head, and may not be readily visible. If you don't see signs of leakage, I wouldn't disturb it. As I mentioned in my post on 9-15, leakage around that plate is often confused with the rear main seal. I'm glad you pinned it down.
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