| Gary M. | -- 08-18-2012 @ 7:42 PM |
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My master cylinder is shot and my slave cylinders are leaking so Im changing everything. All new parts , hoses ,master ,slave cylinders ,springs ,flushing out all the brake lines and thinking about going with silicone fluid. Any opinions ? Im tired of changing pitted and rusty cylinders!
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| supereal | -- 08-18-2012 @ 8:15 PM |
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If you are replacing DOT3 with DOT5 (silicone), now is the time with new parts. Be sure to flush all lines with alcohol before adding the fluid, as the two types don't mix. At our shop, we don't recommend silicone, as it is very difficult to get all air out. Silicone entrains air, so don't agitate it before installation. To reduce problems with regular fluid, just replace it every couple of years by bleeding the system until the fluid runs clear. Silicone is considerably more expensive than DOT3 so buy plenty for bleeding.
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| deluxe40 | -- 08-19-2012 @ 10:22 AM |
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I have two cars with silicone fluid. One was restored about 1990 and then sat in a back yard for about eight years without moving before I got it. I restored the second one and put silicone fluid in it about 1996. It was difficult to get one of the front hoses to stop seeping. A second try with new copper washers did the trick. I drive both cars at least once a month. I have had no brake problems. I believe I have only added fluid to them once or twice and I have never bled the systems. Another car, with brakes that were good and Dot3 fluid, sat for about a year while I was busy. At the end of the year the cylinders were so frozen we had to drag it out of the barn with the wheels sliding.
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| 40guy | -- 08-19-2012 @ 12:16 PM |
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I rebuilt so many wheel cylinders I could do it in my sleep. Got tired of that one day and went the whole nine yards { same as you plan to do except I replaced the metal lines too }. Sixteen years; not one brake issue. The key is proper bleeding. Mine will lock all fours with silicone. I'll never go back to DOT3.
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| Peterooster | -- 08-19-2012 @ 5:18 PM |
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Went with silicone 16 years ago for my 1950 F-1, 4000 mi later no problems Pete
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| Gary M. | -- 08-19-2012 @ 5:20 PM |
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Are there any major concerns that I need to be aware of ? I am told that water in the system drops to all the low areas and cannot be easily bled out. How would water get into the system when my car never sees rain , snow or a water hose and lives in a heated and air conditioned garage ? Thanks for the input...
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| Gary M. | -- 08-21-2012 @ 5:36 PM |
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Also, is there any reason why silicone brake fluid would NOT be compatable with all brand new brake components from Macs ?
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| trjford8 | -- 08-21-2012 @ 7:23 PM |
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I use Dot 5 in all my cars. If you are starting with a completely new system Dot 5 would be a good way to go in my opinion.
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| supereal | -- 08-22-2012 @ 9:13 AM |
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Water accumulates in DOT3 brake fluid because it is alcohol based, and is hydroscopic, meaning it attracts water. That is also why ethanol in gas causes corrosion and rust in fuel tanks, the reason why ethanol isn't transported thru pipelines. Auto brake systems are vented to the atmosphere at the master cylinder cap, and wheel cylinder boots that are old and stiff also allow road moisture to enter. Old Ford brake systems can be difficult to bleed manually without using large quantities of fluid. Using a pressure bleeder is better. We haven't had much luck using the "My-T-Vac" method, either. Never use an opened container of fluid. Always fill or refill the system from a new, unopened can, as the fluid draws moisture in storage if previously open. Also, don't reuse fluid collected during bleeding, even if it looks clear.
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| TomO | -- 08-22-2012 @ 10:43 AM |
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Gary, I would buy all of the cylinders and hoses at a local parts house and specify USA made or rebuilt. That way if you have a problem, you can just run back to the supplier and resolve the issue. Wagner and Dorman still produce the parts in this country. Tom
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| Gary M. | -- 08-22-2012 @ 6:24 PM |
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As far as using domestic parts over foreign ,shouldnt the parts be made to American specs if they are produced overseas ? Also, how would you really know if the parts are made here or overseas ? The only markings Ive ever seen on parts is a small sticker that is easily removed. Im sure there is some sort of legal standard that these companies should abide by but do they ? Thanks again...
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| supereal | -- 08-22-2012 @ 7:45 PM |
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Now that NOS and US parts are either unobtainable, or very expensive, we are left with foreign repros or nothing. That is the real world. The fact that any parts are available for vehicles that are many decades old is, in itself, remarkable. I don't like it either, but there is little alternative. It doesn't look good for the future of the hobby, I am sorry to say.
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| supereal | -- 08-22-2012 @ 7:47 PM |
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Now that NOS and US parts are either unobtainable, or very expensive, we are left with foreign repros or nothing. That is the real world. The fact that any parts are available for vehicles that are many decades old is, in itself, remarkable. I don't like it either, but there is little alternative. It doesn't look good for the future of the hobby, I am sorry to say.
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| TomO | -- 08-23-2012 @ 7:56 AM |
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Gary, Last year we went nuts trying to bleed a brake system after replacing the master cylinder and wheel cylinders. The master cylinder was bench bled as a start and then we started on the wheel cylinders. After going around the car once, the pedal was good and everything seemed OK. We topped off the master cylinder and went to lunch. When we came back, we had no pedal. We tried bleeding again and had air in the system. No matter how many times we opened the bleeder screw, we could not purge the system. I disconnected the lines at the back of the master and plugged the output. The master cylinder would not hold pressure. We took it back and ordered a new one, that one would not bench bleed, the third one from that supplier would not bench bleed either. We went to another vendor and purchased a Wagner re-manufactured unit. It bench bled and we were able to bleed all of the wheels except the left front. We ordered a new wheel cylinder for it from Wagner and then the brakes worked. The 3 master cylinders and the one right front wheel cylinder were made in China. The left front was also made in China and it is still working. I don't know about you, but those odds are too high for me to risk buying the China parts again. The only way to be sure is to buy brake parts from a reputable supplier, that are in the manufacturer's box and read the wording in the box. Brake parts are still being manufactured in the US and a local parts house can order them. The Master Cylinder is the same one used on the Mercedes 300, if you want to buy a German made one. Tom
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| Gary M. | -- 08-23-2012 @ 7:07 PM |
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As for NOS parts,I would be leary about using rubber parts on my brakes that are over 70 years old. Todays rubber and neoprene is much more high tech. Foreign parts that are sold by Macs and various other parts suppliers often have tags that say official licensed by Ford. What exactly does this mean ? Are the parts made to exact specs approved by Ford ? Does Ford get a cut of the profits ? How does the machining and rubber parts compare to domestic parts ? Anyone know the real answer ? Thanks again for your input ....
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| supereal | -- 08-24-2012 @ 8:22 PM |
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Licensed by Ford only means they can use the word Ford on the box. It is simply a trademark program and, yes, Ford does get paid. However, there is no suggestion that the parts are of reasonable quality. Most foreign sources have no idea what the purpose is for the things they make.
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| Gary M. | -- 08-25-2012 @ 9:18 AM |
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Super, you mentioned flushing the lines with alcohol. What type of alcohol? I searched everywhere for a brake system flush with no results. Will brakeclean and compressed air work? Thanks...
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| supereal | -- 08-25-2012 @ 10:06 AM |
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Gary: We use denatured alcohol, which is available at most home centers, and is not expensive. Isopropl is rubbing alcohol, and is mostly water, so it is not suitable. DOT3, while alcohol based, does contain other ingredients. The alcohol flush is to clear the hoses and lines before adding the DOT5. As said here, the best way to make the switch is to completely replace the wheel and master cylinders, as it is nearly impossible to flush those completely. There have been some reports of the brake light switches leaking the silicone fluid, so be on the lookout. I am not anti silicone, but we don't use it at our shop, as customers don't like the soft pedal. I have it in my pickup truck, and it is spongy, and takes some getting used to. When we find brake troubles, it is almost always due to old DOT3 fluid contamination. Fully bleeding the system every couple of years will prevent that kind of problem. Silicone fluid sells for about $25 a quart, while a good grade of high temp DOT3 is about a quarter of that. If you can fully bleed an empty brake system with only a quart of fluid, you are better at it than I am.
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| Gary M. | -- 08-25-2012 @ 3:29 PM |
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I am changing everything except the hard lines,including the brake light switch ,(Harley Davidson switch works). I only purchased a quart of silicone fluid so far but I can always get more. Out of curiousity,how much fluid does a dry system hold on a 39 Standard ? Thanks again...
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| supereal | -- 08-26-2012 @ 11:56 AM |
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I've never measured it, Gary, but we buy it in gallon cans for our pressure bleeder. The difference in the height of the master and wheel cylinders on old Fords can make bleeding tricky sometimes. It helps to "bench bleed" the master before installation to work out as much air as possible. There are inexpensive pressure bleeders on the market that can make the job easier. Always start at the right rear, the wheel farthest from the master, and work toward the front. Be sure the bleed screws are tight, as silicone is somewhat like synthetic oil, and can leak from any fitting.
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| Gary M. | -- 08-26-2012 @ 4:55 PM |
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Thanks for all your advice guys,it will be quite helpful...
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| 1934 Ford | -- 08-26-2012 @ 5:35 PM |
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The first Silicone in brakes for me was in a 1940 Ford pickup bult in 1983 for the 1984 Great American Race. Used the Dot 5 and it's still in use 29 years later. (Didn't use the 40 in the Race because they went to 1936 & older and we ran the 34 with mechanicals.) Just did it to my 81 El Camino and just flushed the system with alcohol and replaced the rubber hoses. I hope it lasts 29 years too.
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