Topic: Clutch jerk

4ford	-- 06-10-2012 @ 6:52 PM
	Hello guys I have a 1941 ford coupe with the original motor and trans. When I got it the brakes were froze up and not sure how long it was sitting. Fixed all of the things got it running and have been going in and out of the garage for a year or so but when I start out in first gear and let the clutch it wants to hop. It all most feels like wheel hop on a car that needs traction bars every thing looks ok at the rear end. Could it be oil on the clutch?? Any help would be good Mike.
42wagon	-- 06-11-2012 @ 3:30 AM
	Mike Not sure what you mean when you say the car "wants to hop". However it sounds to me that you are experiencing the problem we all have to a lesser or greater extent known as clutch chatter. Ford was never able to solve the problem even when providing anti-chatter rods. Some people have gone to the extreme of starting in second gear to avoid the problem. The problem seems to be caused by the fact that the engine and transmission are mounted on flexible mounts that allow them to move back and forth when starting. Try tightening up the bolts in the motor and transmission mounts and see if the problem is lessened. Ted
4ford	-- 06-11-2012 @ 5:02 AM
	Thanks Ted. What I am referring to is wheel hop. It seems to or feels like the rear wheels are hopping but there not I will try 2nd gear and see if it makes a differance Mike
TomO	-- 06-11-2012 @ 7:14 AM
	Reducing clutch chatter is an exercise in perseverance. First, I would set the idle as Ford specified to 450-500rpm. Next, do not race the engine when trying to engage the clutch, raise you left foot slowly until you feel the clutch start to engage and then increase pressure on the accelerator as you release pressure on the clutch pedal. If you still have clutch chatter, change the rubber cushions on the motor mounts. Look for the hardest rubber one that you can find. When I did mine in 2004, Bob Drake made the best cushions. Tighten all bolts from the transmission to the engine and bolts that hold the rear spring in place. Supereal will probably give you a few more suggestions to reduce chatter. Tom
supereal	-- 06-11-2012 @ 9:50 AM
	I think you covered it, Tom. Clutch chatter will always be with us, I'm sure. I've tried most of the "cures" without much effect. The chatter is amplified by the clutch linkage as the torque tube pushes the engine and transmission forward. This same configuration was used by Ford from the Model T thru '48. As Tom said, motor mounts are suspect, and when adjusting them, tighten the center bolts until the rubber visably swells. Be sure the metal cup that holds the underside of the mount is in place, as well, as it is sometimes omitted during replacement. When asbestos was banned, the problem seemed to get worse, as the "organic" clutch plate lining tends to glaze and make uneven clutch engagement worse.
4ford	-- 06-14-2012 @ 8:02 AM
	Thanks for your input on the clutch. Tryed some of the things and it better.. Now there's one more think that I noticed when I took it out for a short ride gritting up to speed in 3erd gear sounds like the motor wants to back fire and spit. I changed the vac bolt all the way out and turned it in 1.5 turns. Helped a little, what else would I look for? I was reading about synchronizing points move to advance spark? Any Idias. Thanks. Mike
4ford	-- 06-14-2012 @ 8:29 AM
	This is a 12volt system . What about the condenser is there a 12volt change for that? Don't know if it was changed out the coil was changed to 12 but don't know about about the condenser?
supereal	-- 06-15-2012 @ 12:02 PM
	The carb main jets are fixed, so adjusting the idle screws shouldn't affect third gear operation. The standard condenser is adequate with a coil wound for 12 volts. I'd substitute a new or known good condensr to eliminate that as a cause. Bucking and backfiring can be from several causes. Bad spark plugs, old plug wires, or crossfiring due to cracked or a carbon pathed distributor cap could account for it, particularly in wet or humid weather. We are also seeing this problem due to weak repro distributor point springs that cause the contacts to bounce. If you have had the distributor worked on, it needs to be run on a machine to see that the firing pattern is consistant. Finally, check to be sure that you don't have a vacuum leak. Look for a cracked windshield wiper hose, a common leak. This message was edited by supereal on 6-15-12 @ 12:04 PM
4ford	-- 06-16-2012 @ 6:39 AM
	Thanks super, I looked at all you said I did find a leak at the fuel pump base fixed that and it made a good deference it still has on reving and driving a miss maybe I am just to critical about this do you think that non oxy gas makes a big deference ? Mike.
TomO	-- 06-16-2012 @ 8:58 AM
	Your engine should run smooth at all speeds. The flathead V-8s were some of the smoothest engines made. If you have a miss, the first place to look is at your spark plugs. Here is a reference on how to diagnose problems by looking at the plugs. http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/engine/plugs.html The next thing that you should do is check your spark. Hold a plug wire near a head nut when the car is idling. You should see a spark that is at least 1/2" long. It should be blue in color and make a sharp cracking noise. If it doesn't check your point dwell and coil output. Tom
supereal	-- 06-16-2012 @ 8:37 PM
	I'm not a fan of alcohol gas, and avoid it if I can. It showed up first by attacking all non resistant rubber parts, virtually all in old cars. In the fuel system, years of varnish and other contaminants are disturbed by the solvent action. Now, there is a campaign to increase the alcohol to 15 percent, which tests show cause damage in most vehicles built before 2000. I know many areas offer only gasohol. In those cases, the old car hobby is being affected at a time when it is under attack by poor economy and waning interest. Not a pretty picture, to say the least. This message was edited by supereal on 6-16-12 @ 8:39 PM
TomO	-- 06-17-2012 @ 8:24 AM
	Super, Several car manufacturers have said the the 15% alcohol will damage their current engines. The only ones that will not be damaged are the flex fuel engines. The farm lobby is the one pushing for the 15% alcohol and the farmers are the ones who will suffer the most consequences. They use many small, air cooled engines to maintain the farm and those engine are the ones that are damaged the most. The computer controls on the newer engines allow the cars to run better than our old cars on the junk that they sell as gas today. I filled up in Indiana a couple of weeks ago, and my car ran better than it had in months around town and I got better mileage than I do with the Chicago area cr*p. Tom
supereal	-- 06-17-2012 @ 10:37 AM
	I agree, Tom. The price differential between grades of gas here in Iowa is about ten cents. Gasohol is currently $3.34/gal, "regular" (no alcohol) is 3.45, and "premium" is 3.55. I've run some tests with my wife's car, and my pickup, and I find a fifteen percent improvemnt in overall mpg between the cheapest and most expensive grades, on a seven percent price differential. Thus, it seems best to use the "top tier" fuels. Ethanol is heaviliy promoted here in Iowa because corn is a major crop. Now that corn has topped $6/bushel, the economics of the product have slipped below the advantage of extending straight gasoline. This may delay or curtail the move to 15%. As a side note, it is interesting that ethanol must be shipped by rail car or truck, as it causes corrosion in pipelines!
4ford	-- 06-18-2012 @ 3:52 PM
	Well I checked out every thing and here is what I found on the #1cyl there is spark but the plug is wet. It sparks outside the cyl the compression is 90#s the valves look like there opening When I pull the plug wire off the motor still remains the same any Idias on this. I think this is where my miss is? Thanks for your input Mike
supereal	-- 06-18-2012 @ 5:12 PM
	That is usually a sign of a weak spark. It can be a plug wire that is broken internally, a faulty plug, or a plug wire not firmly seated in the cap. If you haven't done so, substitute another plug before you dig into the distributor. I'm assuming you are using metallic wires, not carbon fiber, which can cause such problems.
4ford	-- 06-18-2012 @ 5:30 PM
	Wire wires. Is what's in there did look at coil and it € out at 3.7 changed to one that € at 1.7. No diferance it's driving me crazy .. The wires look ok and € out ok Mike
supereal	-- 06-18-2012 @ 8:12 PM
	If the wires are old, they can lose energy through very small cracks in the insulation inside the metal plug wire conduits where it can't be seen. The old method of testing is to spray water on the conduits and listen for errant sparks, or to do this in a darkened area where the spark can often be seen. If the other seven plugs are not flooding, the distributor is working, but the spark is lost, or weakened on the way to the plug. If this doesn't find it, check that side of the distributor cap for cracks or burned plug wire sockets.
TomO	-- 06-20-2012 @ 8:00 AM
	If you have a 1/2" spark at idle, your plug for #1 cylinder is bad. The Champion H10C plugs can look good, but some of them will not perform in the engine. Tom
supereal	-- 06-20-2012 @ 9:55 AM
	That is why I switched to the Champion RJ14YC plugs. They have a long nose that doesn't foul like the H-10's. They are sold as sets called "63".
4ford	-- 06-20-2012 @ 11:19 AM
	Super, the plug will not hit anything becuse of being longer? is it a hotter plug. looking at the plugs a bit closer it looks like oil on it so i think the motor is a bit worn but maybe i will try the plugs you think and see if it helps i bit thank you
supereal	-- 06-20-2012 @ 2:49 PM
	I've used the long nose plug for many years with no problems. The H-10 plugs don't extend far enough to burn off oil in tired engines. That has been a problem for many years. Some believe Champion plugs are inferior, but that is all we use.
4ford	-- 06-21-2012 @ 5:46 AM
	Thanks super. I changed out the distributor and put in a Mallory and what a differance that made . Now I will run it for a while. Because of the hotter spark it may burn off the oil on the plugs if not I will change the the ones you suggest. Now I need to establish a timming mark any Idias? It's hard to see piston come up to TDC. Thanks everyone for your help on this problem Mike
TomO	-- 06-22-2012 @ 7:27 AM
	Here is a way to find TDC. Once you find it, use a degree wheel to mark the 4 degrees before TDC, http://www.wikihow.com/Find-Your-Engine%27s-Top-Dead-Center-%28TDC%29 Tom
supereal	-- 06-23-2012 @ 7:22 PM
	I hate be skeptical, but we have had problems with Mallory conversions on old Fords. If switching fixed your problem, it should be obvious that either the stock distributor or coil was at fault. The stock Ford distributor, when properly set up, is as " bulletproof"' or better, than any modern point type unit.
4ford	-- 07-04-2012 @ 4:14 PM
	Got the Malory dizzy in the car and drove it now for a week. The plugs look like new. Well allmost. opened the plugs to .35. So yes supper the old dizzy must have been the issue. Hopefully there won't be any issues with the dis. Thanks all you guys for your input Mike

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