| bmwillia | -- 05-03-2012 @ 6:44 PM |
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Hey everyone, I am trying to get the flathead in my 33 running and I am having a problem right now where the motor will turn over with the plugs out but when the plugs are in, the starter engages and the pulleys budge a little and stop. I have a new battery that was bought a few weeks ago and freshly charged. All of the connections look clean. I have cleaned the battery terminals and cables although I saw no sign of corrosion. I will also mention that I have minimal wiring at this point. I have the neg. battery cable to the solenoid, then the starter cable to the other side of the solenoid. I have a wire from the battery side of the solenoid to the resistor/fuse block and then to the coil. I am getting good voltage to the starter. Do I need to rebuild or replace it? Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Thanks! Brad Williamson
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| TomO | -- 05-04-2012 @ 8:28 AM |
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You did not say if you have a 12 volt system or a 6 volt system, so my answers are for a 6 volt POS ground system. Your battery cables must be 6 volt cables (0 or 00 gauge). The ground connection from the battery must be clean and free of paint. The grounding connection between the starter end plate and the oil pan must be free of paint. If you have a volt meter, connect the COM lead to the NEG post of the battery and the + lead of the meter to the lug on the starter. Read the meter while the starter is engaged and trying to turn the motor. The meter should read .5 V maximum. Any higher reading means too much resistance in the circuit. You can move the + lead of the meter to a connection point closer to the battery to isolate the resistance. The ground circuit can be checked by connecting the + lead of the meter to the POS post of the battery and the COM lead of the meter to the case of the starter. A reading of more than .1 volt means excessive resistance in the ground circuit. Tom
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| supereal | -- 05-04-2012 @ 9:54 AM |
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It is likely that the starter, itself, is the problem. One or more of the brushes may be stuck in their holder. The commutator may be very dirty, or the bushings badly worn. Look at the pole shoes when you have it apart. If you see evidence of scr*ping, the armature is probably being pulled into the shoes when the starter is activated because the bushings are egg-shaped. Be sure you have a good ground strap between the engine and the battery, and that the face of the starter and the clutch housing is clean and bright.
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| bmwillia | -- 05-04-2012 @ 6:50 PM |
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Thanks guys! I started cleaning up the ground connections this evening. I tested with a multimeter at the hot post of the starter with it engaged and I am seeing 2v. Well over the.5 Tom said I should have. I want to try cleaning the grounds before pulling the starter. Thanks! Brad Williamson
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| TomO | -- 05-05-2012 @ 7:33 AM |
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The 2 volts that you are seeing is the result of resistance in the circuit from the battery to the starter. You may have undersized cables or your starter switch could have high resistance. Check by moving the meter probe to the input of the starter switch and take another reading. If it is less than .2 volts then move the meter lead to the output of the switch. If it is more than .2 volts, your battery cable is undersized or the connections are corroded. Tom This message was edited by TomO on 5-5-12 @ 7:34 AM
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| bmwillia | -- 05-05-2012 @ 2:55 PM |
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I pulled the starter and cleaned the face where it connectes to the motor. I have cleaned all of the grounds and have metal on metal at every one. I put the starter back on the engine connected everything back up and now nothing happens when I hit the solenoid switch. I used to hear the starter engage and the pulleys would move slightly. I checked voltage with the solenoid engaged and I am now getting .02 volts when the solenoid is engaged. It seems that the starter is bad. what do you all think? Thanks Thanks! Brad Williamson
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| TomO | -- 05-06-2012 @ 8:36 AM |
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Brad, Just removing and replacing the starter, should not cause it it fail in this manner. Did the starter come apart when you removed it? if so, the brushes may not be seated on the commutator. Check the ground connection of the starter to the oil pan and back to the battery also. Your Bendix drive could also be jammed into the flywheel. Tom
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| supereal | -- 05-06-2012 @ 8:52 AM |
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If you don't hear the solenoid click when you push the starter button, start (no pun) there. To eliminate that as a cause, run a jumper directly from the battery hot side to the starter input terminal. Just be sure that the car is out of gear, and the ignition is off. If the starter turns the engine over, it is OK. If not, either order a replacement, or rebuild it, if you know how.
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| bmwillia | -- 05-06-2012 @ 3:30 PM |
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Ok.. I took the starter back off and apart. I must have had the brushes jammed up or something because it is back to doing what it was before. I think that my battery cables and switch to starter cable may be too small. Some guys over at the fordbarn.com suggested that the battery cables should be at least single 0 or 00 guage. Thanks for the input guys! I am slowly working through this. Thanks! Brad Williamson
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| bmwillia | -- 05-06-2012 @ 6:10 PM |
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Super, I tried your suggestion and got nothing. I heard a click in the starter, but I didn't get any movement. Looks like it is time for a new starter. Thanks! Brad Williamson
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| TomO | -- 05-07-2012 @ 7:30 AM |
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Brad, Are you sure that the starter is back together correctly? Does the shaft with the Bendix drive turn freely? Do you have a local shop that repairs alternators, generators and starters? If so give them a call and ask if they can check out a 6 volt starter. Do you belong to a local car club? Maybe some one in the club can give you a litle hands on guidance. Tom This message was edited by TomO on 5-7-12 @ 7:41 AM
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| bmwillia | -- 05-07-2012 @ 9:08 AM |
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Tom, The starter is back together correctly from what I can tell. The bendix drive does turn freely by hand. Is it possible to put it back on the engine incorrectly? It seemed to me to go back together fine. The bolts lined up etc. Thanks! Brad Williamson This message was edited by bmwillia on 5-7-12 @ 9:09 AM
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| drkbp | -- 05-07-2012 @ 6:28 PM |
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Brad, Did you add the solenoid? That year had a floor starter switch. If that solenoid switch is not working correctly you will have nothing much at the starter. I put a solenoid on a '13 Ford for a starter. Six volt from Tractor Supply. Turns it over like my '35 Ford. Swift and only $8. I don't believe you said what voltage, 6 or 12. Ken in Texas
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| TomO | -- 05-08-2012 @ 7:50 AM |
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Brad, If your starter works off of the car, it should work when it is in the car. From your posts, I suspect that you are using 12 volt cables and when you removed the starter you did something that caused it to not work. If you have the starter out, check to see that the armature shaft turns freely, this is the shaft that the Bendix is mounted on. Try running the starter outside of the car. Make sure that you put nuts on the bolts that hold the starter to the oil pan. The starter should spin fast with no load. If the starter is installed on the car, check that you can turn over the engine by hand. If you cannot turn the engine by hand with the starter, but can without the starter, you have managed to bind up the starter. Rock the car in gear to free up the starter. If you remove the starter armature from its case, examine the armature (the big silver section) for scuff marks and clean the commutator of all grease and dirt. To reassemble the starter, first pull the brushes up into their holders until they look like the photo with the spring resting against the side of the brush. Then you can install the armature without fussing with the brushes. When you have it back together, just push the brushes to seat against the commutator. Tom This message was edited by TomO on 5-8-12 @ 7:51 AM
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| bmwillia | -- 05-08-2012 @ 7:18 PM |
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Thanks for the input guys! I found the problem.. It happened to be a bad battery. I found out the starter was good by connecting a 12v battery to the starter and it turned the engine with no problem. I took the battery to oreilly's where I bought it a few weeks ago. They tested it and said it was good but needed charging. I took it home and charged it all night with an auto shut off 6v charger. tried it agian and still nothing. I took it back to oreilly's and they determined the battery to be bad. They gave me a new battey and it is working great now. Now the problem I have is no spark to the plugs. Time to learn something new! Thank you all for your input! Thanks! Brad Williamson
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| TomO | -- 05-09-2012 @ 8:07 AM |
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That's good news, Brad. Did O'Reillys give you instructions on charging the Optima? Here is a link to the charging information. http://www.optimabatteries.com/product_support/charging.php If you have no spark to the plugs, check the input to the coil. The voltage should change from 6 Volts to about 3 volts as the engine is turned over. The lower reading is when the points are closed. If you still need help, it is best to start a new topic. Tom
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| bmwillia | -- 05-09-2012 @ 1:48 PM |
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Thanks for the info Tom. I think I am just going to send the dist. and coil to Skip Haney and have them taken care of. Thanks again for all of your help! Thanks! Brad Williamson
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