| jethro48 | -- 04-21-2012 @ 6:18 PM |
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I was reading through my v8 times and came across an advertisement for "Classic Car Motor Oil". I know my oil seems very thin after very little running time, and my oil pressure drops off compared to new oil. I typically use 20-50. I would be willing to pay the extra cost for the oil if it really is superior. Any comments or recomendations would be appreciated.
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| MG | -- 04-21-2012 @ 7:23 PM |
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@jethro48, Stick with a quality brand 20w50w such as Castrol and you'll be fine. Our flatheads do fine without the ZDDP additive. The system of oil pressure in our old flatheads really could not be considered an oil pressurized system as in today's cars.
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| Old Henry | -- 04-21-2012 @ 8:34 PM |
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I agree with MG, although I don't use the exact weight oil he recommended. There is no need to pay any extra for motor oil for flatheads. Pretty much anything will do. Our oil pumps are to provide flow more than pressure. Pretty much any pressure indicates flow which is all you really need. My new 80 lb. pump starts out at 30-40 when cold, then down to 20-30 on the highway when warmed up but down to 10-15 at idle. That's using straight 40 weight oil. All oil pressure stories I've ever heard from flathead owners are about the same. Old Henry (The older I get, the better old looks.) This message was edited by Old Henry on 4-21-12 @ 8:36 PM
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| 51f1 | -- 04-22-2012 @ 5:46 AM |
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The quality of the oil available when your flathead was new is not close to the quality of the oil available today. Don't pay extra for oil. Practically any modern oil will do. The consistency (viscosity) of your oil changes with temperature, not age, so its age should not affect your oil pressure. 20W-50 is probably as good as any for an old engine with lower oil pressure. It's equivalent to 20W when it's cold and 50 when it's hot. Richard
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| jethro48 | -- 04-22-2012 @ 12:07 PM |
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Thanks for your input, I was thinking along those lines, just wanted to make sure I was doing what was best. I have been a Valvoline guy for years, so I will stick with what works, Thanks again. Jeff
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| supereal | -- 04-23-2012 @ 10:25 AM |
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Those new to the old Ford hobby have obscessed over the years regarding low oil pressure. The primary reason oil pressure drops when the engine is hot is due to the thinning of the oil, as mentioned above, and the wide bearing clearances in flatheads. Some early engines, such as the Chevy, used troughs and scoops to lube the rods, instead of pressure. As long as there is sufficient oil in the pan, and circulation is maintained, you will be OK. Not so with modern engines with their very close tolerances and high valve system pressures that need ZDDP and other substances to resist wear. The quality of today's oil, regardless of brand, is light years ahead of the oil available when these vehicles were manufactured. Just drive and enjoy the ride!
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| Hal | -- 04-24-2012 @ 8:49 AM |
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supereal What does ZDDP mean? joe
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| Old Henry | -- 04-24-2012 @ 9:44 AM |
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Zinc dialkyldithiophosphates. Read more here: http://www.zddplus.com/TechBrief1%20-%20Introducing%20ZDDPlus.pdf But caution: That information is provided by a company that sells ZDDP so is promoting the use of it. After I started using it I read a scientific article from actual testing of metal surface wear affected by ZDDP at various pressures that concluded that, with the low valve spring pressures of our flathead engines, there was no need for any higher concentration of ZDDP in oils than what was still in modern oils. I'm looking for that article that was very credible and informative to share. If I find it I'll add a link to it. However, even though I don't think that ZDDP needs to be supplemented for our engines, I do it anyway just in case it may help in some way. Probably overkill but I tend to "err on the side of caution." If you want to use it you can get it cheaper than ZDDPlus sells it here: http://www.eastwood.com/ew-zddp-oil-additive-4-oz.html Old Henry (The older I get, the better old looks.) This message was edited by Old Henry on 4-24-12 @ 10:36 PM
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| supereal | -- 04-24-2012 @ 3:05 PM |
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Joe: It is a zinc compound. It is required for metal to metal contact under high pressure, such as non-roller valve lifters. The reason it was reduced in motor oil formulation was because it tends to foul the catalytic converters. Our old flaheads lasted decades witn oil that is vastly inferior to the current formulas. We have seen the "fast buck" boys jump on lots of changes. They predicted valve problems with unleaded gas, and flacked lead additives. At our shop, we do all kinds of valve work, and have yet to see the dire consequences of the lack of lead. Most additives are designed to grease your wallet.
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| slyck14 | -- 04-27-2012 @ 10:02 PM |
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OK, now I would like to chase this discussion just a little further...I have a blown Motor City flathead with solid lifters. The former owner insisted on the Zinc additive due to the solids. More smoke and mirrors or a good idea? Thanks in advance. Joe Syslo Fort Worth, Texas 1946 Ford Business Coupe
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| Old Henry | -- 04-28-2012 @ 6:26 AM |
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If the valve spring pressure is greater than stock it would need the ZDDP supplemented. Wouldn't hurt to put it in just to be sure. I found ZDDP cheapest here: http://www.eastwood.com/ew-zddp-oil-additive-4-oz.html Old Henry (The older I get, the better old looks.)
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| Stroker | -- 04-28-2012 @ 8:05 AM |
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Just about any decent "racing oil" such as Valvoline, Kendall, Royal Purple etc. will handle the additional contact loads encountered in performance flatheads without adding any "mouse milk".
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| mrtexas | -- 04-28-2012 @ 10:16 AM |
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I thought this might be interesting to some on the forum. At the refinery I worked at for 31 years the lube dewaxing units and one aromatic extraction unit were built in the 1930s. The other aromatic extraction units were from the 50s. They are still running today without much changed. I would think the difference in quality of oils today would have to be in the additives. For automotive motor oils additives can make up as much as 25%+ of the volume of oil. Interesting enough the additives were made in chemical plants not refineries.
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| slyck14 | -- 04-28-2012 @ 10:09 PM |
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Thanks for the input! I don't see that it can hurt for either flathead, the '46 or the '34 Three Window Coupe Hot Rod that is the latest addition to my stable. Joe Syslo Fort Worth, Texas 1946 Ford Business Coupe
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| joe b | -- 04-29-2012 @ 5:49 AM |
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OH WOW! What a BEAUTIFUL rod. My dream car
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| 51f1 | -- 04-29-2012 @ 6:46 AM |
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I'm not a fan adding anything to lubricating oil, and I don't think ZDDP is necessary either. ZDDP additives cost as much as the oil for an oil change. ZDDP wasn't even in oil 70 years ago, when most of our cars were built Does anyone have more than anecdotal evidence or opinions that we need ZDDP in our old engines? Richard This message was edited by 51f1 on 4-29-12 @ 6:48 AM
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| Stroker | -- 04-29-2012 @ 7:45 AM |
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Joe: What a lovely chopped 3-Window. It is SO refreshing to view one that doesn't have a "Mouse" installed.
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