| patriot | -- 04-04-2012 @ 11:35 PM |
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I'm trying to correctly rebuild my master cylinder and have a new kit and diagrams but very puzzled by part number 2171 which appears called a "ring". I have no idea if this is a rubber ring or or brass ring but it appears to be rather like a thin "O" ring from the diagrams. My kit contains a rubber washer about 1/8 inch thick with a hex hole, however I don't think this part is needed at all. The image attached is from another forum and the "ring" in question appears to be a thin brass washer which is not in my kit. This message was edited by patriot on 4-4-12 @ 11:37 PM
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| 40 Coupe | -- 04-05-2012 @ 4:32 AM |
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2171 is found assembled around the end of 2170. The parts you removed may have had this thin brass ring, but the rebuilding kits do not have it, they found it unnecessary. The rubber washer with the hex shaped hole is the first part you install, it acts as a seat for the 2178 valve. The valve, 2178, gets fitted into the large end of the return spring and then assembled after the rubber washer. Lube everything with the brake fluid your going to use and DO NOT use any petroleum products in the assembly.
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| supereal | -- 04-05-2012 @ 11:20 AM |
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If there are pits in the bore of the master cylinder (or any other brake system cylinder), rebuilding is a waste of time, unless you have the equipment to hone the pits completely away. Moisture that accumulates in the system attacks the bores, and any pits left will compromise the action and safety of the system. Brake cylinders, master and wheel, are usually priced within reason. Cylinders from exotic cars often are sleeved, mostly with brass. That is not cheap, but necessary when replacements are not available. Fortunately, parts for old Fords are not in that category. The brake system in not a place to cut corners.
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| TomO | -- 04-06-2012 @ 9:21 AM |
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I agree with Supereal. One point he failed to make is that if you hone all of the pits out, your cylinder may be too big to seal properly with stock parts. Good quality master and wheel cylinders are made by Wagner, Raybestos and Dorman. They can be purchased at your local parts house. The Raybestos master cylinder P/N is MC 1050 Front left wheel cylinder is WC8264 Front right WC8265 Rear Left WC8266 Rear Right WC8267 Your parts man can cross reference those number to one of the other manufacturers. Bench bleed the master cylinder before installing to make sure that it will hold pressure. Tom
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| supereal | -- 04-06-2012 @ 9:54 AM |
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Right, Tom. That's why we don't hone them. We did do it back in the 40's and early 50's because new parts were still scarce. We used a three stone hone, and followed with a fine polish tool, things most hobbyists wouldn't have, or want to buy.
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| patriot | -- 04-06-2012 @ 11:58 AM |
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Mr. 40 coupe: I just want to make 100% sure about the thick rubber washer with the hex hole. Mine was at the other end just inside the thick metal stop washer. None of the diagrams I have show a thick rubber washer with a hex hole - despite the fact they are in kits sold today. The brass ring is apparently very difficult to find and may not be necessary as you indicate. But I'm thinking the thick rubber washer is also not necessary. The pic is from a different forum and is not a kit I currently have. Thanks for your help. Bob in Texas
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| 40 Coupe | -- 04-07-2012 @ 7:15 AM |
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If you install the rubber washer between the stop washer 2188 and the 2170 secondary cup, the piston 2172 will not return to it's proper position and uncover the small hole in the cylinder body allowing fluid to return to the cylinder after the brake pedal is released. If you do not install it (keep it handy)if it takes a lot of pedal travel to get the brakes to actuate on the first depressing of the pedal, then take it apart and install it. The 2178 valve if working properly, allows the fluid back into the cylinder but allows about 2# of pressure to remain in the lines, when it does not work properly usually the line pressure drops to zero. the original 2178 valve had a seat built into the valve but the replacement is just a one way valve without the seat.
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| 40 Coupe | -- 04-07-2012 @ 7:32 AM |
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Diagram of Ford Master Cylinder attached.
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| TomO | -- 04-07-2012 @ 7:54 AM |
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To answer your question, the the thick washer with the hex hole is needed. It is part of P/N 2169 assembly. It is installed just like you found it. Measure your MC bore after honing. It should not be more than 1.0675. If it is, your MC will fail with complete loss of foot brakes. This may happen right after assembly or in our lightly used cars, a couple of years later. It will come at an unexpected time. Here is a link to the breakdown of the master cylinder. http://norgv8club.org/norg/index.php/headliner-newsletters-and-tech-tips/category/11-parts-diagrams Download section one of the green book and go to page 42 of the PDF file. Tom
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| jiw1 | -- 01-16-2013 @ 1:48 PM |
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hi tom,i was reading on the topic of the master cylinder which i intend to do soon.i went to the link you mentioned several times and came up whith oopps.unable to find it.i typed in exactly the way you have it and nothing comes up.am i doing something wrong?thank you,john
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| TomO | -- 01-17-2013 @ 8:46 AM |
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John, I just clicked on the link and it took me there, so the site is still active. You can click on http://norgv8club.org/norg/ and then all document index, then Parts diagrams, then Green book Tom
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| woodiewagon46 | -- 01-17-2013 @ 10:36 AM |
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Maybe it's just me but I do not like fooling around with my brakes, especially on a single reservoir master cylinder. Unlike modern systems, if you loose your bore seal, you don't have another cylinder side to stop the car. New master cylinders are available from Joblot Automotive for $69.95, part no 91A-2140. It's just not worth the trouble you are going thru.
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| TomO | -- 01-18-2013 @ 8:08 AM |
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I agree that a quality new or re-manufactured brake cylinder is a better choice than rebuilding the ones on the car. The master cylinder and wheel cylinders are available at most parts houses on a special order basis. In the Chicago area, you can have one the next day. Tom
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