| deuce_roadster | -- 03-29-2012 @ 1:52 PM |
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A few years ago I bought a 40 Std coupe that the previous owner bought in 1957 and put in his garage in '58 and was there until I bought it. He amassed a huge number of parts for it but never got around to working on it. One of the things he picked up was a brand new in the crate 59A engine that from the markings on the crate was made in 1953. This isn't a wartime engine like the ones I think Dennis Carpenter has or had. Here is what I find unusual about the motor. Besides being a 59 series block from 1953, the engine has cap screws holding the mains, 8BA rods and a 1BA crankshaft.
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| deuce_roadster | -- 03-29-2012 @ 1:54 PM |
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Sorry, I hit the wrong button.... Also this engine has an aluminum timing gear on the cam. I will attach 2 pictures of the crate which is pretty cool.
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| deuce_roadster | -- 03-29-2012 @ 1:56 PM |
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End of crate. I disassembled the engine and am hot tanking it to get the gunky stuff off of it but it is a virgin 3 3/16 bore engine which will find its way into the coupe it was bought for. Note "1953"
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| Stroker | -- 03-29-2012 @ 3:32 PM |
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deuce roadster: That is really great! In the late fifties I scored a 53 Merc crank in its' box at the local (Pomona CA) Ford dealership. It still lives, albeit now stroked .125", in one of my motors. I have found lot's of stuff I needed in the 50's and 60's scrounging rural Ford dealerships. Particularly good hunting grounds were in San Luis Obispo and Kern county, as they had lots-o farm-oriented dealers who's customer base consisted of people like me with "old stuff", so they tended to keep things that the higher-volume city dealers did not, and they were far enough removed from the SoCal Hot Rod movement to escape their "pickings". I only paid $50.00 for that Merc crank, so obviously they wanted to "move it". Having said this, the next source for increasing rare NOS stuff was Hemmings in the 70's. As most of us are aware, Hemmings today; while a good read, is not a great resource. Our trusted suppliers like Drake, Carpenter, CG, etc. only offer reproduction stuff, which is a nice option, but since much comes from off-shore,is of dubious quality. Has anyone ever considered a NOS-only EV8 parts site? That would be "nirvana" for many of us.
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| deuce_roadster | -- 03-29-2012 @ 3:55 PM |
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Stroker--Yeah, those were the days!! I don't know how this engine got up here (Seattle area) but inside the crate was evidence it came from a Ford dealer somewhere in Texas originally. I think it was purchased in the late 50s though. Like your $50 new Merc crank! I like your idea of a NOS Only shopping site! Was the crank wrapped in paper that looked like it was oil soaked? This engine had paper like this tucked all around it and it amazingly protected it all these years. The "oil" however was on its way to becoming tar.
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| Stroker | -- 03-29-2012 @ 5:20 PM |
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Well, that was a LONG time ago, but as I remember, the parts counterman placed a heavy-duty cardboard box with a Mercury logo on the counter and lifted the top off. I don't recall the heavy oiled paper, but I do remember it was coated in what I would call Cosmolene, and I believe it had some wooden blocking to support the mains inside. Again, it's been many years. I would have never found it had I not known the parts man, and he knew I was building a large motor. Helps to communicate!
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| trjford8 | -- 03-29-2012 @ 7:56 PM |
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For those looking for NOS parts there are a couple of sources. Louis Cote' in Fallon , Nevada has a ton of NOS parts and is a V-8 Club member. On my way to St. George , Utah I broke a passenger door latch in my 40. I was in Fallon and called Louis and he brought me a NOS latch. He only carries good used Ford stuff and NOPS parts. The other source is Stacy Brown in Arlington, Texas. He has NOS and NOSR(new old stock replacement)parts.To my knowledge he does not have any foreign made parts. Bill McGrath at the Early Ford Store in San Dimas, Ca. also has a lot of good used and NOS parts. I should add that All Ford Parts in Campbell, Ca, also has a lot of NOS parts in additionn to their repo stuff.
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| supereal | -- 03-29-2012 @ 9:01 PM |
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It is more likely that the engine is either a factory rebuilt, or more probably, someone assembled an engine from 8BA parts and put it in a crate that once held a 59A rebuilt. The last 59A new engines were built in 1948. The tipoff is the later rods, etc. These things surface now and then. From your description, it isn't a new engine found in an old dealership. We have been offered similar deals, from time to time.
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| deuce_roadster | -- 03-30-2012 @ 7:34 AM |
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Super, it is definitely all new parts. Cylinders mic 3 3/16 no taper. It is a 59 series block not a bored out 3 1/16 block. If it is a factory rebuild, they used a new block rods and crank. All bearings are STD. My engine machinist (davetatom.com)is convinced it is new and he has built many hundreds of flatheads. I am going to swap out the crank for a Merc and go with 3 3/16 Ross pistons so I can use modern rings but I'm NOT going to bore any of the life out of it just to increase power. Dave said he has seen the aluminum timing gear on a few new industrial motors, it might be one of those.
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| supereal | -- 03-30-2012 @ 10:30 AM |
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A "factory rebuild" 59A likely wouldn't replace the original floating rod bearings with the later insert type, and both aluminum and fiber timing gears are widely available. You state the the engine is "brand new, in the crate". I'm not trying to rain on your parade, but assuming that is is a "virgin 59 series block from 1953" is a tough sell.
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| deuce_roadster | -- 03-30-2012 @ 4:13 PM |
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OK, first let me say I respect what Super says, I know he is very knowledgable. This is my last post on this because I don't want to seem like I'm keeping an argument going. In my first post I stated there were unusual things about this motor. I mistakenly thought folks might like to see the crate. It's the only one I've run across. I however didn't stencil the 59A-6011-A2 on the crate nor did I stencil the 1-19-53-2. There is zero debate that everything (block,rods,pistons,crank, etc)is new and not remanufactured. We checked everything with micrometers and a bore guage. Nothing is reground or resized, the bore is 3 3/16 and the pistons are marked Std and measure such. The fact that the rods and crank were newer then the block made us surmise the 1-19-53-2 was a date related number. However these new parts got assembled and put into this crate is unknown but it has been sitting around since the late 50s and the person who purchased it passed away about 7 years ago so I can't ask him. I am very happy to have a new block regardless of what other think so enough said. Sorry I brought it up.
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| Stroker | -- 03-30-2012 @ 4:57 PM |
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I'm going out on a limb here, but I have a gut feeling that this motor is the real deal. In 1953, I was lucky enough to take a tour of the Rouge. One of the things that impressed this teenager greatly 59 years ago this June, were the acres and acres of flathead blocks stacked upon pallets on top of pallets. The Ford tour guide explained the process of "ageing" blocks by allowing them to go through a freeze-thaw cycle. We have a local foundry here in Iowa that does the same thing with water-works valves and fire hydrants. So...were all those blocks 8BA's? I doubt it, as Ford had a replacement engine program then as now. Let's suppose you are a dealer, and your customer roasted his 48 Ford motor. You don't have a rebuildable core, he doesn't want a rebuilt, and you sure as h*ll don't want the hassle of re-working stuff to accomodate an 8BA. Yes, I'm aware of the Meyer-Welch "Blue Ribbon" authorized rebuilts, as well as other "Blue Ribbon" programs. We know that Ford supplied replacement 4-cylinder engines well into the V8 only era, we know that Ford supplied Model T blocks into the Model A era, so why wouldn't Ford have had replacement engines available in 1953? We had two Towt flathead powered agricultural wind machines that were purchased new in 1950. Both of these had Ford Industrial 59-series motors. Were these back-stock? or were they simply available items in the Industrial product line? I don't know, and it would take someone of the caliber of Lincoln to research this. "Crate motors" even today do not necessarily reflect installed production vehicle norms. Given the unusual "innards", I'd vote for a 59 series industrial engine, built in 1953.
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| trjford8 | -- 03-30-2012 @ 5:50 PM |
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Stroker, I agree that Ford probably had replacement motors to send out to the dealers. Ford didn't throw anything away, especially if there was a market for the item.
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| supereal | -- 03-30-2012 @ 9:08 PM |
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If you're happy, i'm happy. My point was that it is unusual, and some healthy skepticism is warranted when the pieces don't fit. I worked for a Ford dealer in the 40's and 50's, and never saw a "crate" engine that wasn't produced by an "authorized" rebuilder, better called a "remanufacturer". These firms started with a bare block and actually did " remanufacture" an engine. We sold and installed lots of them, particularly in trucks, because we could do it in one day and put the vehicle back to work. A good practice is to require proof of any "special" features, particularly if they are being offered as an inducement to pay extra. This message was edited by supereal on 3-30-12 @ 9:11 PM
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