| Pair of 40's | -- 03-20-2012 @ 6:57 AM |
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I have no tail lights or brake lights on my 40 convertible. I have head lights and dash lights. Blinkers work but these were added and not on orig harness. License plate light also works. Main circuit breaker does not appear blown from what I can see. I checked all connections and wiring seems fine. I checked at the master cylinder stop light switch and the blinker wire runs through it so I'm assuming switch is ok. I did put a tester on the wire to the switch but I don't seem to have power there. Car was rewired during restoration with a new harness 2 years ago.
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| TomO | -- 03-20-2012 @ 7:16 AM |
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The tail lights and license light are connected to the same wire from the light switch. There are 3 wires in the harness that goes to the rear of the car, yellow wire is for the gas gauge sending unit, black wire is for tail lights and license light and the green wire is for the stop lights. There is a connection point that has 2 pigtails on the black wire. One connection is for the license light and the other is for the cross over harness for both tail lights. If you have turn signals, your stop lights go through the turn signal switch and you will have extra wires in the harness that goes to the rear of the car. Try tracing the tail light problem and if it doesn't fix the stop light problem, come back with a description of your turn signal switch (7 wire or 4 wire). Here is a link to the wiring diagram for a stock lighting system. http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/FH_images/FH_electrical-pics/Flathead_Electrical_wirediagram1940car.jpg Here is a link to the wiring schematic for your car http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/FH_images/FH_electrical-pics/Flathead_Electrical_wiring1940dlx.jpg Tom This message was edited by TomO on 3-20-12 @ 7:19 AM
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| Pair of 40's | -- 03-20-2012 @ 7:28 AM |
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It is a 7 wire blinker. Bulbs appear to be 1154's
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| supereal | -- 03-20-2012 @ 9:25 AM |
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The tail lights are not connected to the turn signal system, only the stop lights. As you have neither working, the common connection (no pun) is the lack of ground to the body of the lights. These units originally were grounded thru the rear fenders. Over the years, paint, rust, and fender welting have interrupted the necessary grounds. Place a voltmeter between a ground other than the fender and the center bulb terminal in the sockets to determine if power is actually being delivered. If not, suspect the "bullet" connectors to the lights. If there is power, place a jumper between the tail/stoplight mounting and/or the bulb sockets, and ground. If they light, install a ground wire to the mounting bolts of each side, and to the ground. When we rewire s vehicle, we always install an additional ground wire to each component. I've often wished that the makers of replacement wire looms would include these to reduce the work. Using the body and frame for a good ground made sense when the cars were new, but years of rust and dirt lost that advantage. Old tail and stop lights are small and dim under the best of circumstances, anyway, and need all the help they can get. As LED bulbs become available, we will all benefit.
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| Pair of 40's | -- 03-20-2012 @ 10:13 AM |
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Thanks for the tips. Being a fresh restoration we have battled to much paint vs the rust problems.
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| Pair of 40's | -- 03-20-2012 @ 10:20 AM |
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I just noticed in Joe's Antique Auto catilog that Quart Hologen are available as replacements for the 1154, wonder how much better they are?
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| ford38v8 | -- 03-20-2012 @ 12:09 PM |
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Halogen bulbs draw far too much juice to improve the lighting on an antique car. Step on the brake, for instance, and your headlights go dim, without a visible improvement to the brake lights. Halogen also produces a great deal of heat, which in itself is a problem. Alan
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| supereal | -- 03-20-2012 @ 12:53 PM |
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I agree with Alan. Halogens just take too much current, paricularly for a generator/six volt system. By comparison, LED lights draw a fraction of that load. We are now seeing LED headlights which are composed of almost 60 diodes, yet draw about the same current as one small bulb. The price of LED's has come down rapidly, and are now common in newer cars. Don't waste money on halogens. I have them in my '47, and had to go to an alternator and relays to meet the load and produce illumination just a bit better than the originals.
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| 1883warren | -- 03-20-2012 @ 4:57 PM |
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A trick I've used for years is: clean, then paint the insides of your tail lights with two coats of WHITE paint, and it can be semi-gloss and that seems to work the best, although gloss white is fine. This will add much to the brightness of these lamps. These is no need for halogen bulbs. No need for 12 volts either, as this is opening a can of worms. If your V8 won't spin on 6 volts, better rebuild your stater, put in actual big SIX volt cables, and clean up connections. Warren
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| Pair of 40's | -- 03-20-2012 @ 6:16 PM |
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Thanks for all your comments. I think its a ground problem. We will find it!
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| TomO | -- 03-21-2012 @ 9:20 AM |
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Painting the inside of the light housing with white or aluminum paint increases the light reaching the lens 3-5%. Aluminum foil behind the bulb gives a 15-20% improvement. A .3 V drop in voltage from 6 volts give a 25-30% drop in light output. Using a flashlight reflector behind the bulb increases the light reaching the lens about 48 -70%. This was determined by using a light meter. In my experience, lack of a ground connection will give you very dim lights. A poor connection would give you dim lights. Lights that do not light are usually caused by a lack of voltage to the bulb socket. The turn signals work, so there must be a ground connection good enough for the tail lights and stop lights. Sometimes looking for a common cause of a problem can lead you down the wrong path. I like to take one problem, diagnose the problem and then repair the problem. If it fixes another problem at the same time, I am ahead of the game. I agree with all of the comments on the halogen bulbs. The stop lights get their voltage from a wire running from the stop light switch to the turn signal switch. The turn signals have their own source of voltage. One of the leads going to the stop light switch should have voltage all of the time, the other wire (the one going to the turn signal switch) should have voltage only when the stop light switch is active. Tom This message was edited by TomO on 3-21-12 @ 9:35 AM
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| supereal | -- 03-21-2012 @ 9:49 AM |
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Sometimes the turn signals work when the stop lights don't. This is due to the stoplight bulb finding ground back thru the taillight. When the taillight comes on, the ground disappears. That is so, as TomO notes, to the fact that the turn signals are powered separately by some turn signal controls. It is a tricky problem to diagnose, but we see it frequently in old vehicles.
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| trjford8 | -- 03-21-2012 @ 10:16 AM |
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You definitely need power to the stoplight switch. It should be a "constant hot' wire. The power to the stop light switch feeds the power to the turn switch for the brake lamps.
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| Pair of 40's | -- 03-22-2012 @ 9:58 AM |
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Problem solved. Two wires, one up front that powered the brake lights and one in the harness that splits the rear tail lights were lose in there connectors. The ground theory was dismissed because we did have the rear blinkers. Thanks again for the help.
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| supereal | -- 03-22-2012 @ 10:54 AM |
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Those "bullet" connectors were not one of Ford's better ideas. We slip a piece of heat shrink tubing over one of the wires, then solder the bullets together, and shrink the tubing over the splice. It looks stock, but will not work loose. As for grounding, even if the lights work, often supplying a good ground will enhance brightness.
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| TomO | -- 03-22-2012 @ 4:58 PM |
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When you connect the bullets to the sleeves, you should feel the bullet snap into place. If you do not get that feel, order new sleeves from Narragansett wiring. Some vendors are supplying sleeves that are made of soft metal. When you plug in the bullet, it spreads the metal and the rubber cover is supposed to make it spring back. The ones from Narragansett are made from a material that keeps it shape and puts tension on the bullet. Tom
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| supereal | -- 03-23-2012 @ 7:14 AM |
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The last set of bullet connectors we bought were made of plastic, not rubber, and even after crimping the sleeves enough to get a better tension the things still worked loose, Tom. As it is unlikely that the connectors have much utility beyond making the original assembly easier, I opted for a more permanent solution, and don't have to chase problems out on the road, such as the horn circuit along the inside of the left front fender that defied staying put. I'd send back any connectors that are not rubber covered, too.
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| carguy | -- 06-14-2012 @ 9:32 AM |
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I like the idea of installing separate ground wires from the socket to a trusted common ground but I wonder what gauge wire should be used. 12 gauge or is this overkill? Bill Brown '34 Cabriolet
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| trjford8 | -- 06-14-2012 @ 6:11 PM |
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14 or 16 gauge wire should be fine for the ground.
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| emilychung | -- 07-06-2012 @ 10:12 PM |
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If you have turn signal lights, your stop lights go through the turn signal switch and you will have extra wires in the harness that goes to the rear of the car.
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