| Arts40 | -- 02-11-2012 @ 8:15 PM |
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After the first close look at several components recently pulled from ’40 Deluxe Convertible's engine, some little puzzles arise. I’ll post them by topic, starting with this one: The carburetor is a Stromberg 97, which all refs say is for ’36-38’s. The engine is an 85hp, original or equal as far as I can see (24 bolt heads w. letter A, water pumps down low, fan on crankshaft pulley, car serial # is ~2/3 of way into what VanPelt gives for the '40 85hp's numbers) Do you know of any typical rationale(s) for putting this carb on this engine? For instance, do Strombergs do better in cold wx than std issue carbs? (This car spent its life between NYC and Vt.) Perhaps relatedly, there’s a very small fuel line feeding from the bottom center of the float bowl back to a junction block on the firewall—I believe to feed a gasoline-fired heater (!?). There is in fact a herky-looking heater in the car that looks very much retrofitted, & not like anything yet seen on the web (& no extra water hoses running anywhere). Could it be simply that the Stromberg was more adaptable to this heater's hookup? What to make of all this? Doug
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| ford38v8 | -- 02-11-2012 @ 9:26 PM |
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Doug, There's nothing strange about your find. A good number of V8ers prefer the Stromberg to the Ford-Holley, for their own reasons... One of which being that they may consider the Stromberg to be the better carb because they have always been more popular in multi-carb installations. The real reason: Early multi-carb manifolds were designed to accomodate the Strombergs, before the Ford-Holley was available. Ford-Holleys were too long by half a bolt head for those early manifolds. That's why you see Hollys at swap meets with the front air horn mounting bolt ground off. You are correct in your guess that the small gas line was for the gas heater. Either carb, and for that matter, any carb that has a float bowl will accomodate a fuel feed line to serve a heater. Alan
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| Arts40 | -- 02-12-2012 @ 8:25 AM |
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Thanks, Alan, this helps. Just so's I'm clear on this, the 85hp 40's all came from the factory with something other than Stromberg 97s, correct? This car was never souped (no multi-carb manifold), but I guess somewhere along the line the original carb got replaced for whatever reason. I do know it purred like the proverbial kitten the last time I heard it run (in the '70s), and it hasn't been messed with since. So now...on to the next questions: Whether to rebuild the Stromberg, or revert to...what, a 91-99? And, what to do with that beast of a heater!? Doug
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| TomO | -- 02-12-2012 @ 9:18 AM |
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Doug, I think that you should evaluate the car and decide what you want to do with it. Once that is done, we can advise you better on how to accomplish your goals. If you just want to preserve it as it was last driven, rebuild the Stromberg and the heater. If you intend to restore the car to concourse standards, the 91-99 carburetor would be the correct one. If you have to have a carburetor rebuilt, I would also go with the 91-99 as I think that it is a better carburetor. The heater would have to be removed or you would get a point deduction. The turn signal lights in the front fenders would also have to go. I am not a judge and cannot say for sure, what qualifies for Rouge Awards, but here is my opinion. Your drive train will not be eligible for a Rouge award as you need to have the engine redone. The exterior may be eligible for a Rouge award, but I doubt that it will qualify due to the turn signal lamps in the front fenders. The paint condition would not exclude it. I don't know if the gas heater would disqualify the car from an interior award, as they were a period accessory from many sources. Tom
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| 37 Coupe | -- 02-12-2012 @ 9:37 AM |
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Okay here is something I think is wrong or hypocritcal with the V8 Club judging.You say that an incorrect gas heater would disqualify the interior from an "award". I take it you mean a Rouge award. Not to highjack this original post but I assume then my original interior from my 37 coupe would not qualify because of the 39 hot water heater placed on the original firewall cover under all original woodgrain,steering column etc,39 shift lever is also in place. I can understand this and accept it.What I can not understand or accept is the fact a 32 Brookville roadster body can be placed on an original chassis and get a Dearborn,I have been told it has happened and judges were aware. China steel forty coupes will be next.
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| Arts40 | -- 02-12-2012 @ 1:02 PM |
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Thanks, Tom, this is helpful. Unless Stromberg's demonstrated peformance is way under the 91-99's, I'll restore/reuse it, pro tem. Can always "upgrade" later I figure. The heater is big, ugly and not well-installed, (and the car has moved south) so I think we'll take photos, take it out and put it up for adoption. As to the big picture, we're still fact-gathering, but at present our goal is to keep the '40 in the family. Basic thinking is to restore it mechanically to safe/sound/fun running, & beyond that preserve body and interior well enough to slow or prevent degrading from their current state. The real big decisions, I guess, will turn on what to do body-and paint-wise: one quarter panel shows an inch or two of perforating rust at the very bottom, and paint's not great in several areas as you can see. Underneath aft the engine bay is oily enuf that I'm not worried, but elsewhere I know what little rust there is will "never sleep". A body-off, concourse-eligible job is a ways off in terms of $$ and time we can devote now. BUT we want to keep that door open by not messing other things up as we go thru the mechanicals. Meanwhile, efv8 advice on our various topics is very constructive. Thanks again. Doug
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| TomO | -- 02-13-2012 @ 10:05 AM |
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37 Coupe, Reproduction cars and parts are another story from a potential Rouge car. I know that you are concerned with the possibility of a reproduction car getting a trophy, but I think that should be a completely different topic and should be submitted to the Judging Standards Committee. It is their job to determine if something should be allowed on the Concourse and what point deductions should be made. Tom
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| supereal | -- 02-13-2012 @ 11:23 AM |
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The Stromberg 97 is tricky to rebuild, and requires a special tool. Many of these units leak, inspite of careful assembly. The 91-99 or the 94 succeeded the 97, mostly because they were less difficult to maintain.
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| deluxe40 | -- 02-13-2012 @ 1:29 PM |
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37 Coupe - The Operational and Safety Check form on the judging sheet states: "Fiberglass or Reproduction Body -Mandatory Deduction -1000". Is there any visible way to tell a '32 Ford roadster body from a Brookville? I would hate to have judges rely on anecdotal evidence supplied by bystanders. In the Rouge Division "original" means that the parts and finishes were installed or applied at the Ford factories at the time of manufacture. In the Dearborn Division parts are to be "Authentic" which is defined as: "(Like Henry Made It) .... original, new old stock, restored, or reproduced..." Correct me if I'm wrong, but the interior in your '37 looks to be beautifully restored, rather than "original from the factory". In this case, your '39 heater and shifter might cost you points (2 points for the heater and 1 for the shifter - plus a few points for incorrect holes in the firewall, etc.), but you might still get a Dearborn if everything else on the car were authentic, in like-new condition and properly installed.
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| 37 Coupe | -- 02-13-2012 @ 4:17 PM |
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The picture showing my coupe interior is of my unrestored interior with the exception of the rubber mat. The woodgrain and everything else besides the heater and shift lever is 1937 Ford factory,that includes the steering column black, did have to fix steering wheel cracks,saved a lot of money on an interior on this one seats are perfect. Outside was a different story original owner school teachers garage was better suited for her Model T before this one.I would never get a Dearborn with this car because I couldn't stand the 60 hp engine which is now in a motorcycle.
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| deluxe40 | -- 02-13-2012 @ 6:25 PM |
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Wow, that interior is so nice you should take it to a meet just so people can appreciate it. Besides, the judging manual for the Rouge Division says, "A minimum of 90% of the area being considered must be original from the manufacture of the vehicle." In my opinion a heater is less than 10% of a cars interior, so you might get an award even with it.
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