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FFracer
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-- 10-30-2011 @ 9:02 AM
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yeah it's me again... O.k. so yesterday we had a big event here in San Bernardino "Trunk or Treat" a car show, over 7,000 kids! The event is about 30 miles out, the 33 is running good I found that if I run the headlights without the dash lights or the electric pump my dad put on for priming that at about 45 M.P.H. I could maintain a neutral charge rate COOL!. So were on our way out I got the car running 55-60 M.P.H No temp gauge other than that tube with the fluid in it, well it kept getting hotter and hotter slowly but steadily, then I get that familiar smell of coolant so I pulled it over I did have a gallon of water so I waited for the block to cool and dumped in about 3/4 gallon. had to do the same to get home. This morning (after not sleeping last night) I pulled the rad hose passenger side My Dad used a S.S. washer with a .700" hole. (other side is same) Is this the correct thermostats? I also run the fan belt slightly loose (not ridiculously loose). Fresh, motor, rad. was rebuilt, water pumps look new, distributor was just rebuilt (I was not sure about the coil) so timing should be right, I pulled the plugs all look good (None steam cleaned) no steam out the exhaust or any smell of exhaust in the radiator, no water in the oil, the motor has the stock aluminum heads for the B motor (which have some small cracks that do seep a very,very small amount of water).
So do I look at those high volume pumps or the closed coolant system or is there somthing I am missing??
BTW I can drive it all around town all-day with no problem.
Anyhow again I appreciate the input, advice and the knowledge you-all offer.
Chris
This message was edited by FFracer on 10-30-11 @ 9:11 AM
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TomO
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-- 10-30-2011 @ 9:28 AM
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Chris, you are loosing coolant at high RPMs. The high volume pumps would not help this problem. you need to find out where it is going.
Direct the over flow tub into a container and see if the coolant is coming out there. If it is you could add Skip's valve to the overflow.
The washer's that your Dad installed are used to restrict coolant flow. They may be adding to the problem. Try running without them.
Tom
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FFracer
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-- 10-30-2011 @ 9:40 AM
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Exactly what I was going to try today. run a hose from the overflow to a container and find out What happened to the water..
It has been my experience that not running a t-stat the water goes through the radiator so fast it never has time to cool down...
Thanks,
Chris
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carguy
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-- 10-30-2011 @ 9:59 AM
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It has often been suggested that the coolant has to be slowed down so that it can spend more time in the radiator. This is a myth and not true.
Chris should remove the washers and allow as much flow as possible for optimum cooling.
Bill Brown
'34 Cabriolet
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supereal
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-- 10-30-2011 @ 10:47 AM
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It would be wonderful if the old saw about restricting coolant flow was beneficial. The opposite is true. The greater the flow, the more efficient the cooling. Period. The major cause of overheating is a radiator with partially clogged tubes, or internal liming. Whether the "rebuild" was effective should be questioned. Many are not. The next is a combustion leak, usually a head gasket. You seem to have covered most of those. Aluminum heads are always suspect due to warping and erosion. Finally, most old cars will lose coolant out the overflow when you exceed about 40 mph. I found that out years ago with my Model A's. Ship Haney's valve will probably help. If your car still has the original brakes, driving at today's hiway speed is risky.
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FFracer
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-- 10-30-2011 @ 11:53 AM
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My thought also on the radiator.. it just not appear to be doing its job. I will pull the washers and run it.. If results are the same the radiator is coming out.
You are sooo right about the mechanical brakes, the road I was doing the 55-60 on was the old route 66 out here. I could see for miles ahead and there was no traffic (Well none if you don't count the folks behind me 
The pressurized system kind of scares me due to the aluminum heads. It would seem if I apply even 3 pounds of pressure it may just start escaping out the small cracks and head gasket??
Again thank you,
Chris
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joe b
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-- 10-30-2011 @ 1:34 PM
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I lived in Ontario, Ca. I ran with no thermostats and Wetter Water. It helped some. Finally decided to have the radiator looked at. Had it disassembled and found 6 tubes blocked among other things.
Try Griffith Radiator Repair on Holt Blvd. in Ontario. They have been there since 1933. He knows his stuff. They disassembled the entire radiator and after repair my Ford ran cool again.
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FFracer
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-- 10-30-2011 @ 2:05 PM
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Well here ya go... Pulled the restrictors no change, car heated up in 3 miles. pulled over added 3/4 gallon! next stop home depot (different car) 10' of 3/8 vinyl tube, shoved it on the overflow tube ran it into a bucket in the cab again 3 miles pukin' coolant, As fast as I go the faster it puked. Problem is now pretty obvious. Just weird how no water is getting into the cylinder(s). you would think it would leak into or be pulled in on the intake stroke and showing a super clean plug or valve, but i guess without a pressurized system... Man I just hope it's a head gasket... Realistically though I would bet the head(s) are it. Good excuse to find some of those cool finned heads
Any suggestions on head gasket cooper or steel with aluminum 21 stud heads and what do you use to seal around the studs??
Chris
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supereal
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-- 10-30-2011 @ 2:54 PM
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Steel is probably better than copper on aluminum heads. We usually replace all stud, but if none leak, you may get by, but I wouldn't bet on it. Permatex makes a good sealer.
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Stroker
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-- 10-30-2011 @ 4:04 PM
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You mentioned in an earlier post that the motor was recently rebuilt. I'd elicit an adept compadre, and have him/her apply the emergency brake, place the trans in 3rd, and engage the clutch just enough to impose a load on the motor without stalling it. while you trustingly observe the water in the head tank with the cap off. Bubbles would indicate a compression leak.
It all boils down, (pun intended) to this: Running down Foothill Blvd. (I grew up in your West-End hood),is a lot different than tooling around Berdoo. At highway speeds, you are burning more gas, thereby creating more combustion heat, (and assuming you don't have a cylinder head leak), these excess calories must be accommodated somehow. If you don't see lots-O-bubbles in the aforementioned static test, then JoeB's advice regarding Griffith is your next stop. Coolant loss has three causes: 1. The engine cannot rid itself of heat as fast as it generates it; 2: The coolant is being displaced by combustion gasses, and 3-the system cannot contain the flow rate.
I'll vote for 1.
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FFracer
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-- 10-30-2011 @ 4:18 PM
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My next test was to bust an old spark plug weld a air fitting to it & basically do a leak-down test, watching the radiator for bubbles. But honestly with the little cracks in these heads, the corrosion around the head to block, the leaking around the studs i have a pretty good idea the heads are the problem.
I was looking trying to find an aluminum head that is stock C.R. but so far everything I have found is 8.5+. There is supposed to be a guy in No.Cal. that is reproducing the smooth aluminum head I have I just have not found him. Doing some reading I also find that there is a difference in ratio's between the left and right head it appears some of the aftermarket heads do not do this?
thanks again,
Chris
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FFracer
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-- 10-30-2011 @ 5:56 PM
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Leak down: drivers side #2,3,& 4 all blow bubbles. Guess I will pull and see if it can be tig welded, I have a feeling the whole surface to head area is wasted.
Chris
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37RAGTOPMAN
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-- 10-30-2011 @ 6:18 PM
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FFracer
running a loose fan belt will make the pumps slip and not do their job,this might be some of your problem,
When my 37 would run a little hotter. I knew the belt will need ajusting.then
I installed SKIP'S pumps and his valve and no more running hot,and I do not loose any coolant,running at 55-60 mph,in the summer,
my 3 cents 37RAGTOPMAN
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supereal
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-- 10-30-2011 @ 7:39 PM
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I wouldn't waste time and money trying to Tig weld an aluminum head. Most of the problem is internal corrosion, where you can't reach it. If the block side of the head is welded, it will be necessary to resurface it. We do a lot of Tig welding on external block cracks, but heads are not repairable. It is much better to locate replacement heads. Iron is preferable. If you want the appearance of aluminum, they can be painted.
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FFracer
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-- 10-31-2011 @ 7:06 AM
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Yeap, my Dad spent a lot of time & money to find these heads, then have them repaired and now there no better off then before they were repaired. I am lucky I didn't toast the block or melt a bearing. The more I think about it the more I lean towards the iron heads, there cheap, and they work.
The motor was rebuilt 6 years ago has about 150 miles on it. I am hoping it comes apart without busting studs, and no deck corrosion. Just a nice easy head replacement ... It could happen!
Chris
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Stroker
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-- 10-31-2011 @ 7:44 AM
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Having done a fair amount of TIG welding; old, contaminated, porous cast aluminum is indeed a challenge. I'd pop for the iron heads, just as most Ford owners did in the early 30's once they had problems with the originals. The aluminum industry just didn't have mature enough
technology to produce a lasting product in that application. OK for intake manifolds, not so
hot for liquid-cooled cylinder heads. WWII advanced that technology and experience to the point that most aftermarket finned heads in the 50's were pretty tough.
All the neat places to drive leaving Berdoo are uphill. Once you get a grip on your
cooling issue, you'll be cruising through the pines at Big Bear, Arrowhead, etc.
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Kens 36
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-- 10-31-2011 @ 7:59 AM
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Chris,
You mentioned the repop aluminum heads. They are manufactured by Kearney Pattern Works and Foundry in San Jose. http://www.kearneyfoundry.com/home.html
Phone:(408)293-7414
I have them on my '36 and they are very nice. Not inexepensive though.
Ken
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FFracer
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-- 11-09-2011 @ 7:36 AM
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Pulled heads there in pretty bad shape, cant see trying to "fix" these. I checked out new heads at Kearney, expensive but the car is really nice and worth it. turns out the old aluminum heads are off a 35' anyway. So a little lighter in the wallet but it will be nice not to be watching the temp gauge or wondering if the heads are gonna fail on my way up a hill.
Thanks for the help and advice.
Chris
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FFracer
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-- 11-12-2011 @ 5:59 PM
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Hey all,
Well my new heads from Kearney should be here next week, so after pulling the old heads...Ahhh Good times, NOT! I found most of the studs were loose so I pulled them too. What sealant do you use on the threads? I have some permatex thread sealant (The white stuff) would that be O.K. How tight do you run the studs into the block? I did not find much if any sealant on the studs when I pulled them, maybe why there was so much leakage around the studs??
As always Thank You,
Chris
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ford38v8
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-- 11-12-2011 @ 7:01 PM
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Chris, Permatex High Temp Thread Sealer is what you want. They made it just for us. Chebbies not allowed to use it.
Alan
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supereal
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-- 11-12-2011 @ 7:12 PM
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Run the new stud down until you feel the end of the threads are reached. It is a good idea to clear the block threads first. A special thread chasing tap is best, but a common threading tap will work if carefully used. If you encounter resistance, back off the tap and work it back and forth until the hole is cleared. Old cast iron is funny stuff, and is trying to revert to iron ore, so be very careful when tightening the studs and the head nuts, following the standard pattern with a good quality torque wrench.
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wilmalcolm
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-- 11-13-2011 @ 9:31 AM
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I would suggest in looking at the hoses. I was having overheating problems for years with my '53 F-250 pu flathead and tried many things w/o success-radiator flush, nos radiator, removing grill, different thermostats, new coil, checking the timing, etc. Finally after 10 years of messing with all of the above and even after I replaced the block after it cracked, someone suggested that I should check my hoses and sure enough, one of the lower hoses was soft and would collapse. Replaced hose-end of problem.
This message was edited by wilmalcolm on 11-14-11 @ 2:23 PM
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FFracer
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-- 11-21-2011 @ 7:47 AM
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new Kearney heads bolted down, started, warmed up no leaks. waited till morning and re-torqued the heads and ran it... PERFECT! ambient temp about 40 degrees so with the car running at 50-55 MPH I could barely get any temp at all, if I let it sit & idle I would get some reading from the gauge. I will check water temp with a thermometer later. Checked water level and it's right were it was before I left Good Day for sure! I am thinking I need to put the restrictors back in so I get some kind of temp. in the motor, at least while it's cold out?
Thanks so much to all. I really appreciated the help.
Chris
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carguy
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-- 11-21-2011 @ 7:58 AM
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Rather than reinstalling the restriction washers I would recommend that you install thermostats if you want to get the coolant temperature up.
Bill Brown
'34 Cabriolet
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FFracer
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-- 11-21-2011 @ 9:22 AM
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yeah I know, T stats just scare the cr*p outa me. I have had several fail in other cars. Even now for our newer computer cars I stick-em in a pan with a gauge and test them before I install.. I know you are right engine temp management is very important. I have always used Stant although I read somewhere there are some Stainless steel versions although I am not sure what difference that makes?
Chris
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supereal
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-- 11-21-2011 @ 10:12 AM
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If you have a problem with thermostats, be sure that they are installed properly with the bellows side facing the engine, not the radiator. In cars where they are placed in the upper hoses, place a clamp on the hose to prevent the stats from moving.
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FFracer
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-- 11-21-2011 @ 11:03 AM
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Looked at Mac's for the t-stats they really didn't show (or I missed it) anything for the 33' I would have thought the edges would have some thickness to them unlike the standard stats that drop into a relief cut in the block. Won't those edges cut into the hose?
Thanks,
Chris
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drkbp
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-- 11-26-2011 @ 7:56 AM
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A pair of the one on the left if it will load. Can't get the picture to show in the preview.
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TomO
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-- 11-26-2011 @ 8:10 AM
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Little Dearborn in MN lists thermostats for your car in their catalog. Give them a call to make sure that they are correct for installing in the hoses.
http://www.littledearborn.com/passenger/temp/ford_passenger__v8__thermostats.htm
Tom
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