| LanceD | -- 10-04-2011 @ 2:36 AM |
|
So the headlights on my 39 De Luxe are very dim making it undrivable at night. The car is mostly original so it's still 6v positive ground. I plan on taking the light buckets apart and cleaning them and the lenses. After that I'm not sure what else to do. Are there brighter bulbs available? Is there anything I can do to the electrical system to help the bulbs out? Any help will be appreciated -I know I have an old car, that's where my knowledge ends, Lance
|
|
| alanwoodieman | -- 10-04-2011 @ 7:20 AM |
|
one of the causes for dim lights is bad grounds, connections to the bulb itself and the rotary switch for 39 and earlier cars. Clean all connections and use diaelectric grease to prevent further corrosion, check the voltage in the system to make sure with the engine running you have at least 7 volts, if not adjust the voltage regulator. There are higher watt lights available also, not sure if the aftermarket guys have them or not.
|
|
| TomO | -- 10-04-2011 @ 7:33 AM |
|
Make sure that you are getting full voltage to your bulbs by hooking up your voltmeter to the connector for the headlight and then turning on the head lights. Your meter should read within 0.5 volts of the battery voltage (5.5 V or more). If you have a lower reading, isolate the failing area by moving the grounded (+) lead of the meter to the NEG battery post. The meter should now read the voltage drop in the circuit (less than 1 volt). Move the COM lead of the meter to connections closer to the battery, when the reading becomes closer to 0, you will have found the source of resistance in the circuit. The reflectors in your head lights could also be causing the problem. They are silver plated and tarnish. Most silver polishes are too abrasive for the reflectors. There used to be a non abrasive polish available, maybe someone can recommend a current product to polish them. Tom
|
|
| ford38v8 | -- 10-04-2011 @ 8:07 AM |
|
Lance, The previous advice given is accurate, as is tyour own thinking that the lenses are dirty. They always get clean on the outside, but almost never get the road grime off trhe inside of then lens. Your wife will scrub out the dish bucket after you blacken it with 72 years worth of exhaust deposits. There are brighter bulbs, and are available from the usual suspects. Your original bulbs are 32/32, you want 50/32. The following is a non-stock fix, but works well to bypass the resistance in the switching circuit: The power delivered at the bulbs for low and high beams can instead be delivered to a set of relays near the radiator. The headlights are then supplied from the relays, which in turn are supplied by a heavy gage wire direct from the solenoid. Alan
|
|
| LanceD | -- 10-04-2011 @ 12:28 PM |
|
Okay thanks for the help. I now have a list of things to do as well as a freshly placed order of new brighter bulbs. This place really is great i've learned a lot in the week i've been looking at this board! -I know I have an old car, that's where my knowledge ends, Lance
|
|
| LanceD | -- 10-04-2011 @ 1:37 PM |
|
Alright so I just did a little work and discovered some things which require further advice. First off I took off one of the lenses and it was really clean, the reflector was also very shiny and reflector like. So no troubles in the headlight itself. Then I turned the headlights on and noticed that they just don't burn bright. Which prompted me to check voltages, standing voltage on the battery with motor off was 6.53v. Voltage on the battery while the motor was on fluctuated between 4.75 and 5.0v. So I'm having a problem here obviously, maybe the motor isn't producing much power? I'm not 100% where to go from here since my service manual for the car isn't gonna be here for a while. So um can someone give me a starting off point? Something to look for to start narrowing the problem down? Thanks -I know I have an old car, that's where my knowledge ends, Lance
|
|
| supereal | -- 10-04-2011 @ 3:49 PM |
|
More often than not, the loss of voltage at the headlights boils down to two places: the dimmer switch, which is placed below the floorboards where it gets all kinds of abuse, and the series of "bullet" commectors between the switch and the headight bulbs. I know you are all tired of hearing this, but place the leads of a voltmeter across all the connections. Any reading shows loss at that place. At six volts, very small losses add up. Think of your system as a garden hose. The more holes in the hose, the less water makes it to the nozzle, in this case, the headlights. Unless your charging system is producing at least seven volts above idle, your headlights will always be dim.
|
|
| ford38v8 | -- 10-04-2011 @ 9:37 PM |
|
Lance, if I understand you, with headlights off engine running, you have 5v? I'd start under the assumption that you have a poor connection, possibly at the battery itself. Check for cables being hot to the touch after running for a while. Include in this inspection the wires under the dash. At the battery would indicate poor connection, under the dash would mean a short. Clean and tighten both battery terminal leads, the ground cables to the firewall and engine, and the hot lead to the solenoid, and all others at that location. Clean nand tighten the terminals at the regulator, and the one at the generator. A ground wire isn't provided at the generator in 1939, but go ahead and install one anyway. It's just not smart to depend on the generator mount to provide the ground. With these connections all freshened up, if you still have the problem, then I'm as lost as you are. Alan
|
|
| LanceD | -- 10-04-2011 @ 11:47 PM |
|
Yeah the reading is 5v at the battery when the motor is running. Makes me think the generator isn't working. Then again the ground strap on the battery isn't in the greatest shape. It should be replaced no matter what -I know I have an old car, that's where my knowledge ends, Lance This message was edited by LanceD on 10-5-11 @ 5:46 AM
|
|
| alanwoodieman | -- 10-05-2011 @ 6:02 AM |
|
remember not to put standard 12 volt cables on your car, it is 6 volt so the amp load is doubled. there is a ground from the battery to the firewall and another from the firewall to the engine make sure the post on the firewall is clean and so are the cable ends. I would have the generator and the voltage regulator tested together so you can find out what the problem with the low voltage while running is. Generators need RPMs to put out so the car must be above an idle to put out 7 volts
|
|
| TomO | -- 10-05-2011 @ 7:04 AM |
|
Lance, Try measuring the voltage at the battery under the following conditions. 1) motor running, lights off and engine speed about 1,000rpm. I would expect around 7 volts, if not your charging circuit is not working. 2) motor running at about 1,000 rpm and headlights on. I would expect about 6.5 volts if the previous test was OK. If you have less than 6 volts, suspect the battery or the generator. 3) motor off, ignition switch off, starter button pushed to activate starter. Expected reading above 5.5 volts. Less than that the battery is not fully charged or weak. Tom
|
|
| LanceD | -- 10-05-2011 @ 10:26 AM |
|
Okay test completed as you instructed. Test 1 had a terrible result, with motor revved up the battery was fluctuating around 1v. So there is definitely a problem with charging. Didn't bother with test 2 since the first went so poorly. As far as test 3, this battery is brand new so I know it it's not at fault. Plus even with no charging it's cranking the motor multiple times a day and has powered thee car on a long drive. I'm gonna check my grounds while I wait for responses -I know I have an old car, that's where my knowledge ends, Lance
|
|
| LanceD | -- 10-05-2011 @ 11:11 AM |
|
Okay I found a loose wire on the generator, tightened it. Now I have a question, there is a post stamped with a G that has nothing connected to it. I'll assume that G means ground, do I need to run a wire from this post to the ground? I'm attaching a picture of it. -I know I have an old car, that's where my knowledge ends, Lance This message was edited by LanceD on 10-5-11 @ 12:00 PM
|
|
| ford38v8 | -- 10-05-2011 @ 1:23 PM |
|
Lance, Yes, that's a ground. Your generator is a later one, the early generators depended on the generator mount to provide ground. Your problem may well demonstrate the reason Ford modified to include this terminal. Braided battery ground straps tend to fail internally without any external indication. I have a wallhanger cable that shows no continuity between the two ends. These are the kind of puzzlers that you get late at night out in the boonies! Alan
|
|
| LanceD | -- 10-05-2011 @ 1:54 PM |
|
So the battery was grounded to a painted bolt, onto the painted firewall. So I stripped the paint and reinstalled the ground, the motor now cranks faster when starting. Then I found the loose connection on the generator and fixed that. The generator is painted, the bracket is painted and thee motor is painted. So that means it's not grounded. I made up a quick ground wire and grounded the gen to the fire wall. My headlights are now brighter by a lot. However I'm still not sure the generator is working as I think my voltmeter broke. It has started just flashing at me. Bulb tester shows me both non ground posts on the generator are hot, does this mean it's charging? I just don't know how to test the thing -I know I have an old car, that's where my knowledge ends, Lance
|
|
| Stroker | -- 10-05-2011 @ 3:48 PM |
|
Lance: When you replace your voltmeter/(multi-meter), get a good quality analog unit, rather than a digital. Second, if you run into real electrical problems, you are not that far from Iowa City, and the home of our Forum Guru on just about anything, but especially electrical issues; and that is our own "Dr.Supereal". Third, you have one of the nicest 39 Deluxe Tudor's I've seen in quite a while, and except for the heater and non-original transmission boot, it is simply beautiful. As a native Californian who has lived the past 45 years in Iowa, I can appreciate the heritage associated with your family's 39. I am presently "refurbishing" my dad's 38, which he bought new in California. You obviously have a good eye for details, and a good working mechanical knowledge. We'll try and help on any of your questions, as this Forum has lots of folk who have "been there and done that". Iowa has a couple of Regional Groups; I belong to Central Iowa RG# 145, and Waterloo-Cedar Valley's Regional Group #77 is probably much closer to you. Now that you have the car, you might consider joining an RG just to compare notes with others that share our passion.
|
|
| TomO | -- 10-05-2011 @ 4:43 PM |
|
Lance, The transient spikes present in our old cars are not kind to digital meters. I turned a very expensive Fluke meter into a paperweight by trying to adjust my voltage regulator with it. I am sorry that yours bit the dust. Radio Shack has inexpensive analog meters. Get one with the largest scale that you can afford. Another good source of voltmeters are the tach/dwell meters sold at swap meets. Buy one that includes voltage test, not one of the Sun units. The bulb tester will show that the field and armature posts are hot. The way to check the generator and voltage regulator is to connect a voltmeter to the BATT post on the regulator and increase the rpms to about 1000-1500. You should read about 7 volts. Your car has a battery gauge that should tell you if your generator is working. Turn on the ignition switch and observe the gauge. It should move to the band just before the wide one that has a N under it. That band is about 6.2-6.4 volts. Now start your engine and bring the rpms up to about 1,000. The battery gauge should move slowly towards the wide band with the N under it. The beginning of the band is about 7 volts and that is where the gauge will read when your battery is fully charged and you are driving without any accessories or lights on. Your car is so nice that when you get these small problems resolved, I am sure that you will enjoy driving it. I second Strokers suggestion that you join a regional group. The other owners can help you with some of the unique characteristics of Ford cars. Tom This message was edited by TomO on 10-5-11 @ 4:51 PM
|
|
| LanceD | -- 10-05-2011 @ 11:00 PM |
|
Thanks for the replies guys. I will definitely be joining a RG. This car is begging to be driven and be around other cars like it! My volt meter messing up really made this complicated. Even after I fixed the problem the volt meter was telling me different. The battery gauge in the dash was showing me that everything was working which is why I realized it was the volt meter! Now that I know the battery and generator are good and my headlights are 30% brighter I can move on to brighter bulbs and actually checking the headlight circuit for resistance. Again thanks for the help guys. Next week I'm getting married and this car needs to be ready for it. We are taking our wedding photos with it and will be leaving the ceremony in it! So it's crucial this car it's reliable and you guys have been a lot of help so far! -I know I have an old car, that's where my knowledge ends, Lance
|
|
| TomO | -- 10-06-2011 @ 7:02 AM |
|
Congratulations on your upcoming marriage. Does your future wife know that she comes first, right after your car? My wife and I have been happily married for over 50 years. She realized from the start that I was a car nut and has been very supportive of my hobby and I have appreciated all of her various hobbies over the years. Your headlights will never be as bright as the lights on new cars. There have been many advances in lighting in the past 70+ years since your car was manufactured and most of the advances require extensive modifications to install on your car. When you have good voltage at your headlights, good grounds at the battery and the lights and the lights aimed correctly, you will have adequate light for most driving. You will have to drive a little slower at night than you would in a modern car and leave a larger interval as well. To most of us that is part of the charm of driving an old car. Tom
|
|
| LanceD | -- 10-06-2011 @ 11:36 AM |
|
Thankyou! My almost wife got a good laugh out of that one. Lucky for me she likes the car as much as I do. She also likes the alone time she gets when i'm out working on the car! Even better is her hobby is photography and that provides me with good car pics. I don't expect the headlights to be like my modern car's lights. Before my work on the car yesterday they were only receiving 1.5v and there was no change between low and high beam. It was really absurd how dim they were, I think an oil lamp would have shined brighter! Tomorrow i'll get an analog voltmeter and actually follow the steps you laid out for me in your first response! -I know I have an old car, that's where my knowledge ends, Lance
|
|
| Henryat1140 | -- 10-10-2011 @ 8:55 AM |
|
Hello Lance, You are getting the best advice out of the geezers here because you listen, and you have good communication skills. In my experience, more than half of the electrical troubles in these old cars is due to grounding. When they were new, the metal was shiny and the connections free of rust, corrosion and crud. As time passes, all of these creep in to make the connections less efficient. Every electrical thing on your car relies on a good electrical path back to the central ground point, wehich in your case is the point at which the positive battery cable connects to the firewall. You can make the most of the 6 volt system by paying close attention to the ground points. You say you have made the connection to the firewall clean and shiny - that's very important. One trick I use is to put a star-style lock washer between the metal cable and the grounding point, That kind of bites into the metal on both sides and helps the conductivity. You have to tighten this connection very securely because you want 100% contact metal to metal and dont want the electricty just passing through the points on the star washer. At a minimum there should be a ground strap between the motor and the frame, and the motor to the firewall in addition to the one from the battery to the firewall. Ground straps are a good way to make sure your car's electrical system is getting the most out what the battery can supply; you kind of can't have too many ground straps. If your 6 volt system has a good battery, clean and shiny connections, it will do all you need for your car. Like one of the other posters said, the fact that the lights are not halogen-bright is just part of the joy of driving these old cars. Best regards; my son helps me on my car and it is a blessing. We need youger members and car owners, so if we can help, just pipe up and ask. Henry P.S. I have got to be the world's worst typist - pls forgive if I missed any spelling errors.
|
|
| LanceD | -- 10-10-2011 @ 2:57 PM |
|
Thanks for the kind words. For the battery's ground I used my dremel with one of the grinding tips to expose clean metal on the firewall around the bolt. Then took the dremel to the cables and cleaned the ends up real well. That made a huge difference. Problem is I forgot to do the ground strap from the motor! Thanks for reminding me. Now my next question, how do I aim the headlights? Now I don't ned the explanation on how to tremolo if they're aimed right, but one on how to actually change the angle of them. I don't remember seeing anything under the lense and their isn't much on the back of the bucket. What did I miss? -I know I have an old car, that's where my knowledge ends, Lance
|
|
| TomO | -- 10-11-2011 @ 10:31 AM |
|
Lance, You should tin (cover with a thin coat of solder) the area that you cleaned the paint from to prevent rust. I never recommend that the paint be removed for that reason. The unpainted metal will rust eventually and give you grounding problems again. Star washers work very well in getting a good ground. I use them between the ground cables and any painted surface and for the mounting bolts of the headlight and tail light buckets. To aim your lights, remove the trim ring and look for 3 screws holding the reflector. One should be at the 1 o'clock position and the other two will be at 9 and 3. The top screw is turned clock wise to lower the beam. Tom
|
|
| LanceD | -- 10-11-2011 @ 9:06 PM |
|
Thanks a lot Tom! You guys have really come through for me on a couple topics and the car will definitely be ready for my wedding friday -I know I have an old car, that's where my knowledge ends, Lance
|
|
| EFV-8 Club Forum : | https://www.earlyfordv8.org/forum |
| Topic: | https://www.earlyfordv8.org/forum/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=18&Topic=3818 |