| doning | -- 09-19-2011 @ 3:11 AM |
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For awhile now, as you probably remember in my past posts, I have a hard start with my 1937 85 HP in the mornings because the gas disappears in my fuel bowl. For the heck of it my father and I attached a brass nipple to the oulet of the fuel pump ( original design ) and installed a clear fuel line and tighted it to one of the radiator support rods and filled the line with gas and marked it. This morning before I went to work the gas in the line is gone! Is this going back into the tank? If so, how could it get by the two valves inside? The fuel pump was purchased new about 7 years ago and this is the first run this year with it. Thanks. This message was edited by doning on 9-19-11 @ 3:12 AM
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| trjford8 | -- 09-19-2011 @ 7:00 AM |
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A fuel pump purchased 7 years ago may not be up to handling the job with the change in fuels that we have today. Methanol is tough on rubber parts. The fuel pump diaphram and the flex hose to the pump can both be affected by the new fuel.
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| JM | -- 09-19-2011 @ 8:15 AM |
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It sounds like the one way valve to stop gas from flowing back from the FP to the gas tank is not working. Maybe you could get Ken CT to sell you a good FP rebuild kit. Or purchase a good rebuild kit from another well known source. I bought some from MAC's that were good and they get their kits from Joblot. JM This message was edited by JM on 9-19-11 @ 9:05 AM
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| doning | -- 09-19-2011 @ 9:14 AM |
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JM: The only kit that I saw from Mac's was the rebuild kit for the glass bowl type. I have the earlier design.
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| supereal | -- 09-19-2011 @ 9:21 AM |
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I don't suscribe to the "drain back" theory, but it is certainly true that the pump valves and diaphragm quickly deteriorate in the presence of ethanol. This weakens the pump, if it doesn't stop it altogether, making refilling the carb require lots of cranking. The "vapor pressure" of modern fuel makes it suscepible to rapid evaporation, particularly when it is heated. Low surface tension allows gas to bypass the pump valves if they don't seat completely. If you are unsure whether your pump is "fuel proof", it is a good idea to replace it "just in case".
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| doning | -- 09-19-2011 @ 9:28 AM |
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Ok. Thanks Guy's. I think I might just as well buy a whole new pump. MAN! It's an on going thing with this car!
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| kubes40 | -- 09-19-2011 @ 11:04 AM |
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Like Super, I too do not subscribe to the 'siphon back to the tank' theory. Most often, the fuel is evaporating and / or leaking down in to the intake.
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| ford38v8 | -- 09-19-2011 @ 2:04 PM |
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Likewise on the drainback theory, but I just got this crazy idea: I wonder if the new flexhose with the one way valve would make any difference in anything if used in conjunction with the removal of the fuel pump inlet valve? I suppose technically, all it would mean is moving the valve backstream a bit from the pump body to the flexhose. Just brainstormin'. Alan
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| supereal | -- 09-19-2011 @ 2:45 PM |
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I think it is kind of a "belt and suspenders" idea, but I'd just swap the pump and be done with it. For what the flex hose with check valve costs, you can go to NAPA and get the whole pump.
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| ford38v8 | -- 09-19-2011 @ 6:50 PM |
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Bob, my idea was intended as a way to use the "correct" pump, as some early pumps no longer have replacement valve availability. Belt and suspenders reminds me of the ancient dude in the grocery store today that got in the way of my wife on her electric shopping hotrod. The poor guy didn't know which way to go, realizing that with his high beltline, toupe and ballcap, he represented bonus points for a direct hit. My wife had compassion, we all had a good laugh, and he lived to shop another aisle. Alan
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| supereal | -- 09-19-2011 @ 7:38 PM |
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Alan: I'd be careful. Maybe Juanita is practicing her aim!
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| ford38v8 | -- 09-19-2011 @ 8:56 PM |
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Bob, Juanita says she'll go for pinks with you. Her GoGo and your Navigator. She'll beat you over the crosswalk any day. Alan
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| JM | -- 09-19-2011 @ 10:06 PM |
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doning, KenCT rebuilds the earlier FB's with components that do not deteriorate when using new gas. He is buying these components somewhere. Maybe he will sell you a rebuild kit. Or you could send your FP to him for a rebuild. Some of the new aftermarket fuel pumps put out way too much pressure. Should be no more than 2-3 psi. Also, I don't buy into the theory that the gas in the clear hose between FP and carburetor evaporates overnight. I think it would have to be leaking or draining back somehow. JM
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| TomO | -- 09-20-2011 @ 8:18 AM |
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Don, The output (pressure) side valve will leak down in a few minutes and the fuel will leak back to the lowest point, which is the fuel pump sediment bowl. The inlet port of the sediment bowl is high enough to prevent all of the gas leaking back to the tank. The gas in the carburetor will not siphon back to the tank or evaporate over night. It should take more than a week to drain the bowl by evaporation. The one way valves in the flexible line require a good filter before the valve. If any dirt, rust or other debris get stuck in the valve, it will not work. I would concentrate on fixing the carburetor. If it is the Chandler Groves / Ford / Holley 94 model, the power valve gasket or the drain plug gaskets are probably leaking. Stromberg 97 carbs have their own leaking sources. Tom
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 09-20-2011 @ 1:53 PM |
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doning send your pump to THEN and NOW, in MASS, They will rebuild it for you will modern materials for the new gas,and this way you can KEEP the correct fuel pump on the car,,, or order a rebuild kit from them if you can do it yourself, 781-335-8860 ask for Tom he will fill you in, that's what ,I did and I have no problems, with the original pump HENRY put on the car, do it right and only do it ONCE, MY 3 cents of advice, 37RAGTOPMAN This message was edited by 37RAGTOPMAN on 9-20-11 @ 1:54 PM
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| doning | -- 09-21-2011 @ 3:03 AM |
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Thanks. I have another concern I thought about last night. You guy's don't think that the gas is escaping the pump and running down the oil fill tube and removing the oil from my rear bearings do you? I smelled the oil less than a week ago and it didn't really smell anything like gas. This problem has been going on for about 3 to 4 months now and I hope my bearings are okay. What's the best way to remove the pump? Remove the pump from the fill tube or tube and all? Thanks again Guy's, you've all been a big help.
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| supereal | -- 09-21-2011 @ 3:41 AM |
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A quick test for gas or water in the oil is to pull the dipstick and hold a match under it. If it holds water, it will crackle. If gas, it should flare a bit. Give it the "sniff test", too. If there is sufficient gas leakage, it shouldn't be hard to detect. I don't usually run my cars unless I plan to get them up to operating temperature for about ten miles. This burns off most fuel or water, and prevents sludge. With the engine off, I wouldn't worry about gas getting into the valve chamber. As for replacing the pump. we take the mount off, add the pump, and replace the whole thing. It makes it easier to put the pump rod in the cup on the pump arm, and is better on my old back, too. This message was edited by supereal on 9-21-11 @ 10:14 AM
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