| Tev | -- 09-01-2011 @ 9:09 AM |
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First, I've run a search on this and couldn't find anything. Here's the deal, I've got an original 37 coupe with a 37 85 hp flathead. About 6 months ago we pulled the radiator and water pumps. Radiator was rodded out and the water pumps were rebuilt by Skip Haney. We did some other minor work, but the engine was running great before we pulled the radiator so no other work was done. After we got it put back together, I noticed two things that were new - a bit (not a lot) of blueish oil smoke from the tailpipe and the oil pressure gauge pegs at 50 as soon as the engine starts. I'm ordering new pressure relief spring from Mac's. Question 1 - am I on the right track? Question 2, should we rebuild the oil pump? Question 3, what else should we do while we have the pan off?
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| doning | -- 09-01-2011 @ 9:13 AM |
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Just a guess but what about the oil sender or the gauge? Maybe something isn't right there.
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| Tev | -- 09-01-2011 @ 9:15 AM |
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Well, I thought about that, but the blueish smoke (which is a new thing since we let it sit for so long) indicates its a real oil pressure issue. The high oil pressure and blue smoke are both new for this engine.
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| Stroker | -- 09-01-2011 @ 12:04 PM |
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I would assume that you pulled the radiator to correct a cooling issue. Is it possible that the engine overheated at some point? Blue smoke can result from rings that have lost their temper after being subjected to overheating. The high oil pressure reading might trace back to the same event, if a bit of carbonized oil plugged the relief.
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| Tev | -- 09-01-2011 @ 3:38 PM |
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It's possible, but very unlikely on my watch. I bought the car about a year and a half ago and have only taken it on very short rides before the work - always with an eye on the temp. It never overheated, no boiling over or anything like that. I didn't like how quickly it warmed up, so that's why I decided to refresh the cooling system. The oil pressure reading and blue smoke are new since the radiator and water pumps were replaced - I don't recall this before and I always pay close attention to oil pressure and temp in all my vintage cars, especially recent arrivals. Anyway, thanks for the question. Sounds like the relief valve is the right approach so far.
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| 40 Coupe | -- 09-01-2011 @ 3:51 PM |
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if the engine sat for a long time put some MMO in the oil. It appears you are assuming you have high oil pressure. Why not put a mechanical gauge on it and find out. There is no problem with the initial cold oil pressure being over 50# as long as it comes down when the engine heats up.
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| MG | -- 09-01-2011 @ 3:58 PM |
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Tev, You said you did some "minor work" in your opening post. What minor work did you do? When you removed the water pumps and the radiator, was the car/engine jacked at a radical angle? Did you disconnect the header pipes or exhaust manifold while working on the car? If you haven't, I'm thinking you might want to drive the car for awhile to see if it corrects itself before pulling the pan. This message was edited by MG on 9-1-11 @ 10:15 PM
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| Tev | -- 09-01-2011 @ 4:47 PM |
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The minor work was just cleaning and repainting one head, swapping old junky looking spark plug wires for correct ones from Macs, and installing new motor mounts (front and rear). The header pipes and exhaust manifold were left on. Now, the front of the engine was jacked up a bit with the rear left in place - maybe that's it. Since 40 Coupe and MG both say there's no harm in running it to see if the pressure comes down, I'll do that and report back. I'm a novice with these cars. I love original equipment, but I'm afraid of doing damage due to ignorance. Thanks and more after I run it a bit this weekned.
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| Tev | -- 09-01-2011 @ 8:12 PM |
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The minor work was just cleaning and repainting one head, swapping old junky looking spark plug wires for correct ones from Macs, and installing new motor mounts (front and rear). The header pipes and exhaust manifold were left on. Now, the front of the engine was jacked up a bit with the rear left in place - maybe that's it. Since 40 Coupe and MG both say there's no harm in running it to see if the pressure comes down, I'll do that and report back. I'm a novice with these cars. I love original equipment, but I'm afraid of doing damage due to ignorance. Thanks and more after I run it a bit this weekned.
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| TomO | -- 09-03-2011 @ 7:07 AM |
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Tev, the oil pressure relief valve on a 37 V-8 is under the intake manifold at the front of the engine. There is no need to pull the pan to replace it. Check the wiring going to the oil pressure sending unit, if it is grounded the dash unit will read over 50#. Jacking the engine may have moved the wire to where it is grounded. Borrow or buy a mechanical pressure gauge to get an accurate reading of the oi pressure. Once you know how your dash gauge and sending unit reacts, you can use it to determine if your oil pressure is within normal range. Tom
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| Tev | -- 09-04-2011 @ 12:52 PM |
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Thanks Tom. Will do.
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| Tev | -- 05-02-2012 @ 10:51 AM |
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I'm wondering if anyone would be willing to talk on the phone about some issues with my 37? It's so much easier to quickly talk through things on the phone. I'm also located in Austin, so if any central Texas flathead owners would like to talk or swing by I'd appreciate it. Just send me a PM or email at: tevickery@gmail.com.
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| supereal | -- 05-02-2012 @ 2:17 PM |
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The usual reason for the appearance of blue smoke in the exhaust is overfilling the oil pan. I know the books say 5 quarts, but without an oil filter, the correct fill is 4 quarts. Most 85 HP engines don't have a filter. If you didn't change the oil pump, or the sender, the pressure is likely just a coincidence. Most old Ford owners worry about low oil pressure. I'd just drive it after checking the oil level in the pan. It is very likely the problem will go away.
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| Tev | -- 05-02-2012 @ 3:41 PM |
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supereal, thanks again. this is not the smoking issue - that cleared up. my father laughed at me when I asked about high oil pressure - he said they were always trying to get pressure up on old flatheads. I have other questions, but the one I'm wondering most about is if the rebuilt skip haney pumps aren't getting oil, would that make the pressure higher post-install? the haney instructions call for making sure air passes through the water pump oil passage before installing his pump by blowing into the fuel pump oil insert (as I recall). I don't think we did that when we installed the pumps. easier said than written.
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| TomO | -- 05-03-2012 @ 8:26 AM |
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Tev, First of all are you sure that your oil pressure is high? Have you measured it with a mechanical gauge? If the passages from the oil gallery to the water pumps are plugged, it should not raise the oil pressure. The oil pressure relief valve should control the pressure. The only way that you can be certain that the water pump bushings are getting enough oil is to remove the pumps and check for oil in the passage. I have found that after a while, pumps rebuilt by Skip will spatter the frame and engine compartment with oil. If you are a member of the V-8 Club, look in your Roster for a member near you. They may be able to discuss your issues or direct you to someone that can. If you are not a member, you can join for as little as $15 with the Roster and NO V-8 Times. Tom
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| supereal | -- 05-03-2012 @ 10:07 AM |
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The "new" water pumps sold by major vendors don't require oiling via a passage from the timing gear cover. They have sealed bearings. As said above, don't worry about oil presure until you have checked it with a mechanical gauge. That will tell you if the problem is a failing sender, wiring, or the gauge, itself.
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