| rdt52flthd | -- 08-30-2011 @ 1:43 PM |
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I have a 239 ci 52 flathead with fordomatic. Is there any way to verify that the engine is original to the serial number in the door flange. The car was made in Kansas City. I have looked in the service manual and the parts book, but can't find were the engine serial number may be found. I know this issue has been discussed on the forum, but I know of no way to access forum history. Thanks for any info.
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| rdt52flthd | -- 09-03-2011 @ 2:10 PM |
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So I guess nobody knows how to do this, huh?
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| Stroker | -- 09-03-2011 @ 2:36 PM |
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rtd52flthd: I could sure answer your question if you were asking about a 32-48, but I'm unsure of where to tell you to look for a transmission stamp, if there ever was one. Flathead engines of all vintages; (32-53) did not have engine numbers, so there is no way to tell whether any flathead engine is original to a particular vehicle, only that it is of the correct vintage due to its configuration. 32-48 transmissions were stamped with a serial number that matched the frame number, but I assume that your door jamb number may the only identification present.
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| Stroker | -- 09-03-2011 @ 2:49 PM |
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rdt52flthd: I might also add that must assume you engine is still knocking, and you have a run-away heater. I can get more "into" answering questions when you follow up on advice given. I'm not speaking for anyone but myself, but sometimes it's nice to hear back whether the advice/information given led to solving a problem. It's not a Forum rule by any means, but it is a courtesy to those who tried to help.
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| 51f1 | -- 09-03-2011 @ 4:25 PM |
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The answer is no. There is no way to verify that the engine is original. To the best of my knowledge, the engine number was on a tag attached to the engine when it left the engine plant. This number was transferred to the car/truck frame when the car or truck was assembled, to the patent plate on the firewall in the engine compartment and to the plate in the glove box on the trucks and wherever it was attached on the cars (door frame?). There was no number permanently attached to or embossed on the '48-'53 239 engines. So, any 239 engine with the correct oil pan will do. There are date codes cast into the heads and the engine model, 8RT, 8BA or EAB is also cast in the heads. 8RT is the truck engine, although there are supposedly some trucks that came with 8BA heads. EAB heads were used on the cars in '52 and '53. Whichever head was used, the only difference in the engines on the trucks or cars, except for the designation on the head, is the oil pan. I cannot speak to the claims of different horsepower between the later car and truck engines (110 vs. 106). Richard This message was edited by 51f1 on 9-3-11 @ 4:29 PM
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| rdt52flthd | -- 09-04-2011 @ 2:19 PM |
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Thanks for the info. The head marking is EAB. What got me into this question was when I wanted to solve a fuel starvation problem under occasional acceleration, solved by momentarially turning on the electric fuel pump. I then found out my car had the fuel pump for a standard transmission instead of for fordomatic. When I installed the correct pump with the vacuum booster my heater problem was solved plus greatly enhanced wiper operation. Sometimes it takes quite a while and some lucky accidental findings to solve a problem. But, of course, the question arose, Would the incorrect fuel pump indicate a switch in engines or just an uninformed pump exchange somewhere in the car's history?
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| TomO | -- 09-04-2011 @ 4:39 PM |
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The dual action pumps were not as plentiful as the single action pumps and were less expensive. So your fuel pump was probably replaced by a frugal owner. This could have been done any time with or without an engine exchange. The best indicator of whether you have the original engine is the condition of the car and the mileage. If the car has low mileage and the condition is good, unrestored, it is very likely that the engine was not changed out. But there is no way to be sure. Tom
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| joe b | -- 09-04-2011 @ 5:18 PM |
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To further add to the discussion and confusion, I had to have my '41 inspected by the State Patrol due to the wrong numbers being on an out of state title. In the inspection they found a number stamped on the top of the engine block: R9953407M. This was stamped on the flat top side of the block in the area between the intake manifold and the top of the head on the left side. Any ideas what this means? Could it be a factory rebuilt?
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| rdt52flthd | -- 09-05-2011 @ 12:20 PM |
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Thanks, Tom O. The mileage shown is 63,800 & there is no rust what ever. I could believe the driveline is original. The pistons are .040 over indicating a possible rebuild, although I've been told the factory sometimes rebored to correct some issue during the original build.
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| supereal | -- 09-05-2011 @ 6:20 PM |
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Joe's number is likely a factory authorized rebuilder serial number. To my knowledge, there were no factory oversized. If a block was otherwise OK, except for a sand hole in one cylinder, that hole would have been sleeved. That isn't always an indicator of an original engine, as we have seen sleeves in engines that have been frozen or otherwise damaged, and a few that may have been factory salvaged, but rarely. The later, 8BA types, usually, but not always, had a stamped metal tag attached. In a vehicle with mileage well over 50,000, it would be unusual to find an original engine that had not been rebuilt at some time.
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