| gmcbuffalo | -- 08-13-2011 @ 8:08 PM |
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Where is the ID number for V8's? I want to see if my engine is from the years 1935 or later. Greg Meiling 1935 3 Window Coupe
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| alanwoodieman | -- 08-13-2011 @ 8:22 PM |
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there is not really an ID number on the engine, 35-37 and some early 38's have 21 studs per head, 1938-53 have 24 studs per head . Are there any numbers/letters visible on the heads "A". "59A", or ? Are the water pumps mounted on the head or the block? These are some things that would help to determine the year of your engine. Any chance of a clear picture?
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| gmcbuffalo | -- 08-13-2011 @ 9:47 PM |
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There is a tag on the left side on the fly wheel cover with a 10 and 5 on it. the Water pumps are also the motor mounts in front. I have 5 studs on the bottom row. Greg Meiling 1935 3 Window Coupe
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| ford38v8 | -- 08-13-2011 @ 10:09 PM |
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Greg, your engine is either a 1937 or 1938. The tell is that it is a 21 stud, and has block mounted water pumps. No other engine has those two feratures together. Alan
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| CharlieStephens | -- 08-14-2011 @ 9:46 AM |
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Greg, I thought you might find this interesting: 1) If there are 17 studs it is a V8 60 used in vehicles between 1937 and 1940. This engine was also used in the French built Simca in the sixties but I don’t know what occurred between these two periods. Look for casting numbers and stamped steel water jackets in the side of the block. Post what you find and someone can probably further identify the engine. 2) If there are 21 studs the block was built 1932 to 1938. The transition to 24 studs was late in 1938. Check the water petcocks on the front of the block next to where the lower hose from the radiator enters either an inlet fitting (1936 and earlier) or the water pump (1937 and later). It the petcocks point straight down it is a 1932 block. If the block is not a 1932 next look for a vent from the crankcase area out through the front corner of the oil pan. If there is no vent the block is 1933-34. If there is a vent it is 1935 or later. As a matter of interest, the 1936 engines were the first to use insert bearings. Both insert and babbitt bearings were used throughout 1936. The insert bearing engines can be identified by LB cast at the top of the left front face of the block or by the letters LB stamped into the surface where the intake manifold attaches. Some engines were not stamped and in other cases people tried to inflate the price of their blocks by stamping LB into them when they were sold. Be careful. Now check for the location of the water pumps. If the water pumps mount on the block the engine is 1937 or later. All engines beginning in 1937 were inserts. Frequently you will encounter a 1937 block with factory block off plates held on by two bolts over the water pump passage at the front of the block as it was common for Ford dealers to install this engine as a replacement in the earlier cars. Of course there will be slight transition periods at model change over with the older blocks usually going into the commercial vehicles. There may be subtle differences between the 1933-34 and the 1935-36 engines but I am knowledgeable enough about these years to know what they are. The casting numbers on the flywheel housing will also help identify the exact year of the engine. Post what you find and someone can probably further identify the engine. 3) If there are 24 studs the engine was produced between late 1938 and 1953 (1954 in Canada). If the distributor is mounted on the front of the block the engine is late 1938 through 1948 (1947 for trucks). If the distributor comes up at an angle and appears more like a modern distributor it is a 1949 (1948 for truck) through 1953 (1954 in Canada). The casting numbers on the flywheel housing will further identify the exact year of the engine. Post what you find and someone can probably further identify the engine. 4) There are a lot of additional foreign and industrial applications of these engines but the preceding covers the domestic US automobile production. Charlie Stephens
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| supereal | -- 08-14-2011 @ 10:01 AM |
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In addition to Charlie's comprehensive coverage of the engine ID, if you find a metal tag anywhere on the engine, is is likely placed there by an "authorized" Ford engine rebuilder. Many old engines are a "surprise package" when they are opened, as they were often bored, sleeved, or otherwise modified, to keep them on the road during the war years when replacement blocks were almost non-existant to the the non-military population. Some of the rebuilders also stamped a code on the front end of the valve chamber where the manifold covers it. They make sense only to those who put it there. These numbers could also be found stamped into the top of the clutch housing in some cases, while the original serial number was placed on the transmission.
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| ford38v8 | -- 08-14-2011 @ 12:42 PM |
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Charlie & Bob, all good info, but moot to the question. You must not have read my answer, I guess. Oh, well, I'm used to being ignored. Alan
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| CharlieStephens | -- 08-14-2011 @ 12:49 PM |
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Alan, I read your answer it is 100% correct and I am not ignoring you. I thought my information would be useful to Greg in case he decided to go looking for the correct engine (or maybe he just stumbles across one that he would like to check out, buy and stuff under the bench for the future). Charlie Stephens This message was edited by CharlieStephens on 8-14-11 @ 12:51 PM
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| ford38v8 | -- 08-14-2011 @ 1:14 PM |
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Thanks Charlie, and you are right to have included all the info, as these questions and answers are read by more than a few having the same questions. Alan
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| supereal | -- 08-14-2011 @ 1:52 PM |
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C'mon, Alan. I would never ignore you! At my age, I have so few friends left that I can't afford to lose any.
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| ford38v8 | -- 08-14-2011 @ 3:25 PM |
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Bob, I feel better now, I have a friend! Ya know, there's still the question of whether it's a '37 or a '38. I've never discovered a difference between the two 21 stud engines of those years, has anyone else? And yes, bolt-ons can offer a clue, but are not conclusive. Alan
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| gmcbuffalo | -- 08-15-2011 @ 10:02 AM |
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Thanks guys Well I should look to be sure of what I say before posting. Here are pixs of the engine and the tag I was talking about. Greg Meiling 1935 3 Window Coupe
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| gmcbuffalo | -- 08-15-2011 @ 10:03 AM |
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I guess you vcan only put one pix in a post. Greg Meiling 1935 3 Window Coupe
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| gmcbuffalo | -- 08-15-2011 @ 10:04 AM |
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Front of engine Greg Meiling 1935 3 Window Coupe
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| oldford2 | -- 08-15-2011 @ 2:00 PM |
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Well, Now that Alan, Bob and Charlie are back on speaking terms I thought I would add a bit of trivia to Bob's comment on the "surprise package" you may find in an engine from an "authorized Ford rebuilder". I tore one down last year that had that "official" tag. pistons, and rods were a mixed bag of brands and the main bearings had all been shimmed. AND, after shimming they never cut out the oil holes in the shims! John
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| supereal | -- 08-15-2011 @ 2:12 PM |
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John: I'm beginning to believe the "surprise" is finding that an engine was assembled properly, and with appropriate parts. Many were cobbled together under the proverbial "shade tree", while others seem to be done just enough to get a car sold. For those who are seeking to buy a car, if the seller says that the engine was "just rebuilt", or some such assurance, request that the receipts for the work and/or parts be presented before going further. At our shop, we see way too many times when a newly purchased vehicle has been "puffed" to an unwary seller in order to inflate the price. As for Alan, Charley, and myself, we are all of an age where rusty memories prevent ill will!
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| ford38v8 | -- 08-15-2011 @ 7:05 PM |
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John, even today we see repairs done on a shoestring. To me, it makes little sense to mix and match parts as you describe, but it is done when all the owner is looking for is a running engine as quickly and as cheaply as he can get it. Garage owners can't win for losing: They are accused of trying to "upsell" when they deliver the bad news, and of shoddy workmanaship for following the owners instructions. Your report of shims without so much as an oil hole, however, that is something that was done at the back of a used car lot, not a proffesional shop. I'd make book on that. As for Bob, Charlie, and myself, we might be rusty, but speaking for myself, I do still manage to get oiled once in a while. Alan
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| ford38v8 | -- 08-15-2011 @ 7:20 PM |
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Greg, I just checked the pictures you posted, and have to say that they don't match the description you gave previously. Your water pumps are on the heads, not the block. More pictures please, before we can be positive in further identifying your engine. Alan
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| gmcbuffalo | -- 08-15-2011 @ 10:19 PM |
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Alan where should I point the camera ot get the info you guys need? Greg Meiling 1935 3 Window Coupe
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| gmcbuffalo | -- 08-15-2011 @ 10:24 PM |
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the engine mounts on the right side has the number ending in 30 and the left side ends in 31. One water pumps has a screw in type oiler and the other is a zerk. As you can see there is a vent in the crank case front right side. Greg Meiling 1935 3 Window Coupe
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| ford38v8 | -- 08-15-2011 @ 11:28 PM |
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Greg, it appears that your engine is a '35 or '36, and may be from a Commercial vehicle. This, due to the presence of a Commercial vehicle fan. The passenger car fan had a straight leading edge rarther than the curved one in the picture. Your engine mounts are '36, but may have been changed if the engine is a '35. Three pictures, please: The top surface of the intake manifold under the generator. This picture should show the surface from the front on back to the tower that mounts the carburetor. The underside of the front of the block, showing detail of the drain cock or plug, and the triangular shaped vent hole located at the front of the oil pan on the passenger side. Picture the water pumps on the heads, to show detail of the small lubrication fittings. They are located on the body of the pumps, just behind the pulleys. If both the same, just one picture will do. While these pics will not prove conclusively that your engine is either a '35 or a '36, I expect that they will prove that it is not a '34. Alan
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| ford38v8 | -- 08-15-2011 @ 11:40 PM |
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OK Greg, you're ahead of me with the pictures. Your drain cocks and vent indicate a 1935, but your motor mounts are 1936. One of each year of water pumps. The intake manifold picture will be one or the other year also. Clean off the surface of the block on the driver side at the front, and try to find a stamped mark "LB" . Alan
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| gmcbuffalo | -- 08-16-2011 @ 9:20 AM |
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Yes When I got the motor I was told it was from a pickup. No LB but the following: HS (Star) RI8-I0557 (star). The "ones" look like "I's"; this is hand stamped in the milled surface of the manifold valley front drivers side. photo of tower Greg Meiling 1935 3 Window Coupe
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| gmcbuffalo | -- 08-16-2011 @ 9:26 AM |
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Tower Greg Meiling 1935 3 Window Coupe
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| gmcbuffalo | -- 08-16-2011 @ 9:28 AM |
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casting marklngs drivers side by engine mount. Greg Meiling 1935 3 Window Coupe
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| alanwoodieman | -- 08-16-2011 @ 11:49 AM |
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now that everybody is happy!! 68- is the year code for 1938 and the 6030/6031 are the part group numbers for water pumps left and right or right and left-I forgot-now what is the question?
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| ford38v8 | -- 08-16-2011 @ 12:00 PM |
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Greg, based on all the pictures you've supplied, and your description of features, I believe you have a 1935 engine. The lower vent rules out the possibility of it being a '34. You confirmed my thought that it was a commercial, and the stamped numbers on the machined area of the block indicate that it has been rebuilt at some point, probably getting new babbitt bearings. The mismatch of water pumps only shows that one was replaced, likely being the '36 pump you have. Your drain cocks are '35, your intake manifold is '35, and your motor mounts are '36. I previously identified your fan as being a commercial, which didn't change between '35 & '36. Whatever the reason for a different fan for the commercial, you should be on the lookout for a correct fan to replace it. I want to thank you for forcing me to do the direct ressearch, as simply reading stuff like this tends to make one's eyelids heavy. Because of you, I now have a better handle on the whole enchalada. Alan
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