| Shelby | -- 08-02-2011 @ 8:27 AM |
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My vin number tells me my car was a 4cylinder. How do I determine if it is a standard or a deluxe? Also does anyone know the factory add in that year for the rumble seat?
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| deluxe40 | -- 08-02-2011 @ 9:58 AM |
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According to the V8 Club's restoration manual (available on this site and highly recommended) a Deluxe should have: a wood grained dash, ash tray & lighter, two sun visors, chrome windshield frame, two chrome horns, two tail lights, two cowl lights, no parking lights in head lights and two arm rests. Curious that a Standard 3 window was offered in '33 but not in '32 or '34. The rumble seat cost $25 for Standard and Deluxe Coupes and was available on Standard cars on February 16, 1933. This message was edited by deluxe40 on 8-2-11 @ 10:22 AM
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| Shelby | -- 08-02-2011 @ 10:44 AM |
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to deluxe40. My information shows production for standard and deluxe model 3 window coupes in 1932. I have not looked into 1934?
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| deluxe40 | -- 08-02-2011 @ 2:44 PM |
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I just checked the (new) V8 Club restoration guide for '32 and verified that all 3W coupes were Deluxe and all 5W coupes were Standard for 1932. The V8 Album (1985) shows 32,090 Standard 5W coupes and 22,264 Deluxe 3W Coupes were produced in '32. What documents are you looking at?
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| Shelby | -- 08-04-2011 @ 7:04 PM |
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deluxe40 I'm not trying to ignore you. I am going to library in Hershey tomorrow. They are associated with AACA Museum. They gave me numbers but not sure what their source was. I will check and get back to you. www.conceptcarz.com for 1933 shows standard and deluxe models in the three window. Old Timer Gallery cars also does. Pricing out there seems to be the only thing that is consistent. I also an seeing articles out there that shows cowl lights were options on both models. My car had no cowl lights. I think it is a standard but not sure. Thanks for your help I really appreciate it. I'll get back. My email address is terrydeaven@nittanybuilding.com
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| ford38v8 | -- 08-04-2011 @ 7:26 PM |
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Shelby, DeLuxe40 is not offering opinion. Your questions are basic and known to be fact. Spend the coin and get the book yourself, available on this website. "1933 - 1934 Ford Book Restoration Guide", 430 pages. Fact not fiction. Alan This message was edited by ford38v8 on 8-4-11 @ 7:29 PM
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| Shelby | -- 08-06-2011 @ 9:48 AM |
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ford38v8. Thanks for the infomation. I wasn't sure which book would show probuction numbers. I just was at AACA National Headquaters in Hershey PA, their Library has loads of information. One of their reference books they have is "Standard Catalog of American Cars 1805 - 1942. It lists in '32 2Dr Cpe, 2Dr Sport, and 2 Dr Deluxe but does not define 3W or 5W. Obviously I am dogging the '33 information because that is what I have. I have talked to the Research Center at The Henry Ford and have emailed them my questions and verification of production numbers. My vin number is B5191086 of which makes it a Model B 4cyl and they show only Model C production 4 cylinder in '33 and no Model B production. They directed me to the research center to get verification. They are confused as well. I will order the catalog if all my questions I sent in are not addressed. Thanks.
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| CharlieStephens | -- 08-06-2011 @ 10:11 AM |
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Shelby, What you say is very interesting. It is generally understood that Ford never made a Model C (except for the one in 1903). Does the research center show reference to the Model C in Ford literature of that period or is it from later records (which frequently incorrectly referred to the Model C)? If the reference is from literature of that period it may be a first. Charlie Stephens
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| TomO | -- 08-07-2011 @ 8:37 AM |
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Ford used the "B" prefix to designate the 4 cylinder motors from 1932-1934. So your car was one of the few 4 cylinder cars made in 1933. Because the pricing of the 33 car included the V-8 with a $50 deduction for installing the 4 cyl. engine, I would guess that your car was a standard. It is unlikely that a someone frugal enough to opt for a 4 cyl, would opt for the Deluxe trim. The people at the archives are not historians, they are librarians. They may be accurate in answers to common questions, because they have looked at the material many times. If you want a definitive answer, you must pay to have a copy of the document covering that area. The 33-34 book will answer many of your questions and the Club's Adviser for the 33 / 34 cars will be able to help you with the rest. Tom
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| ford38v8 | -- 08-07-2011 @ 1:19 PM |
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Shelby, Some of your confusion may be from reading articles in magazines. The authors of those articles are generally hacks or staff writers having no particular interest nor expertise in the cars they write about. They do an hour of research and an hour to hack the article and move on to the next assignment. All DeLuxe Fords came off the assembly line having DeLuxe features. If it was not factory designated as a DeLuxe Ford, it could technically never become a DeLuxe simply by adding bolt-on options. Up until 1937, a Ford could be fitted with any options that were available at the Dealerships. 1938, '39, and '40 had distinctive body lines on DeLuxe Fords, making it impossible to make a DeLuxe Look~a~like simply with add-on options. Beginning in 1941, the designation "Standard" was banished forever, now being known as DeLuxe. A Super DeLuxe was added, and a Special, which was truly a strip-down painted in grey only. You made reference to the "Standard Catalogue Of American Cars", which is a tremendous resource, but understandably cannot devote more than a page or two to any one car of a particular year. I'll say again, the "1933-34 Ford Restoration Guide" is the ultimate resource for your car. Alan
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| Shelby | -- 08-08-2011 @ 1:03 PM |
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Charlie Stephens None of Ford's literature that I saw made any reference to Model B or C. The information showing the Model C was from "Standard Catalog Of American Cars 1805 -1942"
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| CharlieStephens | -- 08-08-2011 @ 1:21 PM |
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Tom, I agree with your observation that "It is unlikely that a someone frugal enough to opt for a 4 cyl, would opt for the Deluxe trim". Having said that I have a tired but unrestored '32 Fordor sedan in the garage that is a deluxe. It was produced early in the year. My guess is that they buyer decided to go with the proven 4 cylinder rather than the new V8 that he didn't know how to work on. I wish I knew the real story. Charlie Stephens This message was edited by CharlieStephens on 8-8-11 @ 1:22 PM
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| kubes40 | -- 08-08-2011 @ 3:02 PM |
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You can't rule out the possibility of a 4 cylinder in a deluxe simply on the grounds the purchaser would probably have not be so frugal as to purchase a 4 cylinder AND a deluxe. In 1940 there are numerous examples of deluxe vehicles, even convertibles, built with the 60HP engine.
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| TomO | -- 08-08-2011 @ 5:21 PM |
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Charlie, There were many 4 cylinder Deluxe cars in 1932. Some of it was that the V-8 was not available in quantity at the beginning of the year and the rest of it due to dealer incentives and personal likes. MIke , all of the Deluxe 1940 cars with a 60 HP engine had to be special ordered, just like the ones with the 239 cu in engine and the closed cars with leather interior. Also I did not rule out the possibility that the car could be a 4 cylinder deluxe, I just said that it was unlikely. Tom
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| ford38v8 | -- 08-08-2011 @ 6:25 PM |
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Shelby, there was no Model C. That myth started when someone pointed to a part number suffix letter C cast into a Model B head. The Model B continued as the lone 4 cylinder Ford engine from 1932 through 1934. No reference to a Model C in the thirties could be found in the "Standard Catalogue Of American Cars" by this reader. Alan
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| CharlieStephens | -- 08-08-2011 @ 7:42 PM |
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Alan, If your theory is correct then people would have called the 4 cylinder 1932 Ford a "Model C" since the "C" designation was used on the head throughout 1932 (the letter "B" had been used on the high compression Model A head produced by Ford). I think it is more likely that the general public was used to calling the 4 cylinder the Model A. In 1932 the 4 cylinder was called the Model B. Then in 1933 it would have been logical to have called the 4 cylinder the Model C but Ford chose not do so. Of course this is just a guess since I wasn't around at the time. Charlie Stephens
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| ford38v8 | -- 08-08-2011 @ 9:53 PM |
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Charlie, I think you're right about the expectation of the public and of course, of the press. about a progression of letter engine designations. I'll point out, however, that the B was an altogether new engine from the A, which remained basically unchanged until it's retirement in 1934. What a shame the B wasn't revived in '40 instead of offering the woefully underpowered tractor engine. (Even tractor owners replaced it with V8's.) I guess, it would have been a public relations nightmare to go back in time to an previously discarded engine. Alan
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| Shelby | -- 08-09-2011 @ 4:48 AM |
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Charlie Stephens All of the Ford literature that I saw never referenced the 4 cyl as any Model B or C. The infornmation that listed all 4 cyl engines was from "Standard Catalog of American Cars 1805-1942".
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| trjford8 | -- 08-09-2011 @ 8:22 AM |
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Shelby, have you purchased the V-8 Club's 33-34 book? I think you will find that this single book will save you a lot of time and answer most, if not all of your questions. It can be ordered from this site. Another book that will also help you is the Early Ford V-8 as Henry Built It by Francis and DeAngelis. This message was edited by trjford8 on 8-9-11 @ 8:26 AM
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