| gmcbuffalo | -- 07-20-2011 @ 12:43 AM |
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I'm cleaning up the frame on my 35-3window coupe and notice the frame under the chassis is green. What was the original color of the frame? The car was painted Vintage green. I was going to paint it with either a 2 part epoxy or acrylic, but should it be green, or black semi gloss or black gloss paint? Tx
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| trjford8 | -- 07-20-2011 @ 7:55 AM |
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It should be "chassis black" which is a semi-gloss black.
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| supereal | -- 07-20-2011 @ 1:13 PM |
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Whichever type of top coat you select, be sure to apply primer after you have throughly cleaned the frame of dirt, grease, and rust. We usually use an iron oxide primer such as that made by Rustoleum. Another product is Eastwood's "Rust Encapsulator". Old frames are almost always rusted, often in places hard to reach. An aerosol can, along with brush-on paint makes the job easier. The Eastwood site is www.eastwood.com They also sell the correct "chassis black".
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| ford38v8 | -- 07-20-2011 @ 7:59 PM |
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Tx, I disagree with Bob regarding Rustoleum. I wouldn't put that stuff on my garbage can, let alone my V8. Start, as Bob advises, by a thorough cleaning of dirt and grease. Remove rust scale also, but stop there, do not clean to bright shiny steel. Wash with plain water, let dry for several days, to allow any bare areas to acquire surface rust. Rustmort, a product available at any paint store, thrives on rust! It chemically changes rust into iron oxide, after which, apply the paint of your choice, which in this case should be Eastwood Chassis Black. Your plan to epoxy paint your frame may result in over-restoration, which is not the currently popular way to go. Frames were sprayed quickly, many times leaving bare spots, and were sometimes spot sprayed again on the assembly line. The EFV8CA has always, and now also some other clubs follow suit, in frowning on over-restoration by subtracting points when these cars show up to be point judged on the Concourse. Alan
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| supereal | -- 07-20-2011 @ 8:22 PM |
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I don't have much love of Rustoleum, eitherr, Alan. The iron oxide primer is the only product we use, in most cases. Their topcoats tend to "lift". I mentioned that primer, as not everyone wants to pay for more effective products , such as Eastwood. That is why I mentioned it. There seems to be some interest in powder coating frames today, but most l've seen have not been impressive, or durable, because it is virtually impossible to reach all parts to get them really clean. Any unremoved dirt or rust will usually pop in the oven, making it look as if it was painted in a sandstorm. And, of course, it does result in the dreaded "over restoration". This message was edited by supereal on 7-20-11 @ 8:29 PM
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| gmcbuffalo | -- 07-20-2011 @ 10:48 PM |
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Thanks guys I will follow your leads on this. I have been wire wheeling the rust and then painting with Ophos or Phosphoric acid. I will get some Eastmans paint. There is a Sherman Williams auto paint store close to me would their products be OK? Greg
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| ford38v8 | -- 07-20-2011 @ 11:41 PM |
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Bob, I'm glad We're back on track again, I was concerned! We should make something clear regarding rust before we are shouted down by others: Rust is just not a good thing to find on any hunk of iron, even a C###y.If you can get at it, get rid of it, but the thing about rust is that it seeks the tight spots, the seams, the most inaccessible places. You just have to do the best you can to get rid of it, and rely on chemical tools to do what you can't do. Rustmort, and dozens of other similar products, have as a not so secret ingredient, Phosphoric Acid. This watery liquid saturates rust and chemically converts it to iron oxide. Excess product is left on the iron as Phosphate, ready and able to prevent future rust. Auto bodies used to be dipped in a phosphate solution and would come out a ghostly grey. They would be referred to at that point as being "in the white". These same car bodies years later are sometimes dipped to strip old paint, Problem is, the dip strips out phosphate from seams that had previously protected the bodies, leaving them unprotected. If encapsulated, these seams will be just fine, but difficult to protect as well as they had been prior to the dipping. Not the end of story, though, as both iron oxide and phosphate need a topcoat to permanently exclude oxygen, the mother of rust. Alan
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| supereal | -- 07-21-2011 @ 5:09 AM |
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Alan: I don't think we have been off the track, unless the virtues of mayonaisse vs. Miracle Whip are considered. I think the earlier advice regarding forming a goal as to how high the caliber of the "restoration" should be was right on the money, no pun intended. It seems many well intended projects lie abandoned because expectations were too high, or the amount of resources available were insufficient. In my experience over the years, I learned that regardless of what we expected, surprises, not all pleasant, arise. Old cars as a hobby can be a wonderful thing, and often the most frustrating in the world. On that, I'm sure we all agree!
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| 51f1 | -- 07-21-2011 @ 6:33 AM |
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You have to be careful with Rustoleum products as many of them use fish oil and automotive paints don't stick to oils very well. However, some Rustolueum products are compatible with automotive paints. Just check to be sure. My 2 cents worth: I used POR 15. It's very good if it is applied properly, and you use 2 coats. Top it with their chassis coat black. I never had much luck with Eastwood paints. Richard
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| TomO | -- 07-21-2011 @ 6:52 AM |
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Alan, epoxy paint does not have to have the "wet" look or high gloss associated with 2 part paints. It can be mixed to give a semi-gloss sheen and is more resistant to abrasion then Eastwood's chassis paint. Rustolem primers can give problems with any other manufacturers top coat, even years after they have been applied. I found out this the hard way. Tom
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| gmcbuffalo | -- 08-02-2011 @ 7:33 PM |
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Ok I got the frame back from the media blaster and blow all the dust off of it them sprayed it with OSPHO. So I should be able to green pad rub it and spray on a frame paint and it looks like from the EV8 book that is a glossy black. Am I on the right track here? Greg Meiling 1935 3 Window Coupe
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| supereal | -- 08-02-2011 @ 7:57 PM |
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I don't have much appreciation for Rust O Leum, either, but my experience with POR isn't any better on rusty metal, which is much more expensive. Almost all all of it has peeled off eventually, in spite of careful application, and it is really expensive, to say the least. It is always best to topcoat with the same brand of paint as the primer, in any case.
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| ford38v8 | -- 08-02-2011 @ 8:37 PM |
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Tex, the correct degree of gloss is known today as "semi-gloss black". The gloss black your book referred to may have bee the drivetrain components after the transmission, wishbones, shocks, and other parts added to the chassis. M-1713-D Air Dry Chassis Black Enamel or M-660 Chassis Black Pyroxylin, the two different paints used on the frames themselves, were both Semi-Gloss Black. Alan
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| gmcbuffalo | -- 08-02-2011 @ 9:19 PM |
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There was a NW chapter of model A club here in Wilsonville, OR. I look and talked many could not understand why I was using OSPHO. Am I doing the right thing OSPHO light scrub and then paint? Greg Meiling 1935 3 Window Coupe
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| ford38v8 | -- 08-02-2011 @ 9:47 PM |
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Greg, Your frame is not a single piece of iron, but rather, is multiple pieces, riveted and welded together. There is no sandblaster in the world that can access all the nooks and crannies of your frame. Phospho and similar coatings are water thin, able to penetrate by capillary attraction, something no paint can do. You have a good product there, it being perfect for penetration, and first defense against surface rust which is going on while we play on the computer tonight. Rust is not a good base for paint, but Phosphoric acid is, as also is iron oxide, the result of using Phospho. Alan
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| gmcbuffalo | -- 08-02-2011 @ 11:48 PM |
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Thanks for your help Greg Meiling 1935 3 Window Coupe
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