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john38coupe
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-- 07-05-2011 @ 12:58 PM
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Just removed the two transverse leaf springs from my 38 frame and would like to disassemble them for restoration. Is there a step-by-step process regarding disassembly. They have two spring clamps holding the leaves in alignment and a center bolt holding them together. Thanks
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40guy
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-- 07-05-2011 @ 1:11 PM
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Just disassemble. The hard part is getting them off the car. Now that the spring pressure is relieved, disassembly is straight forward. There is no back and front to the individual leaves, that is to say the leaves in each spring don't have to be kept up with to face front or rear. Do however, keep the front leaves and rear leaves to each ones self.
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supereal
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-- 07-05-2011 @ 2:19 PM
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We use large C clamps to hold the springs together so we can remove the center tie bolt, then release them gradually. Springs can hold a considerable amount of energy, and caution is advised. We use the clamps when we reassemble the springs. Carefully examine each leaf to be sure that there are no wear pockets where the next leaf above contacted the one below. If you find any, grind them smooth so the leaves don't buckle and break. We coat the leaves with a product called Slip Plate, usually sold at farm supply stores. It is a graphite paint designed for grain handling machinery, and provides a durable lubrication. Always use a new center tie bolt when putting the spring back together, and be sure it is seated in the hole in the crossmember when you put the spring back in the car.
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Stroker
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-- 07-05-2011 @ 3:51 PM
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Even though this advice is more applicable to the Model-T, Model-A folk, I'm putting it out because often V8 springs are rusted, and can come apart with vigor.
In the mid-fifties, a bunch of us "hot-rodders" were building a little dragster that was Model
B-powered. It had a 34 counter-weighted crank, 2-Port Reilly "F" head, and ran on a rather "snotty" load of 98% Nitro and 2% benzene. We decided that the stock "arched" rear spring didn't need so many leaves, so we torched the center-bolt. This event took place just outside the garage door.
after the loud "sprong", we could hear the spring leaves one-by-one hitting the roof. Had one of us been leaning over the center bolt when we "blue-wrenched" it, it wouldn't have been funny.
Today, I would not remove a center-bolt without some kind of restraint, such as a pair of C-clamps,
etc.
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john38coupe
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-- 07-05-2011 @ 5:11 PM
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Thanks for all the great advice. Safety was my #1 concern as I haven't done this before and large C-clamps sound simple and efficient. I'm learning!!
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deluxe40
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-- 07-05-2011 @ 6:30 PM
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Another useful tool is a piece of threaded rod about 18" long with appropriate nuts and washers. Once you clamp the spring with C clamps or a big vice, remove the center bolt and replace it with the rod. You can then let it spring apart slowly as you unwind the nuts. The rod is particularly useful putting the spring back together.
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37RAGTOPMAN
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-- 07-05-2011 @ 6:42 PM
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I would wrap a chain around the spring,plus using clamps, using bolts to hold the chain links together,
this way if the clamp breaks or slips off you have a fail safe,
better to be safe then SORRY,
My 3 cents worth 37RAGTOPMAN
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john38coupe
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-- 07-05-2011 @ 6:42 PM
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I used c-clamps and loosened the center bolt till there was great excess thread. The top 5 leaves came loose but the bottom 5 seam to be held together by the spring clamps on each side. They have a button head sitting on the u-shape clamp but there is no indication of how its held on as there is no visible connection to the bottom leaf. The bottom leaf does not have a button on the underside. A bolt connected the two sides of the clamp and I removed the bolt and hit the ends of the clamp with a block of wood but it doesn't move. I assume under the top button, it must penetrate down through several leaves but I don't know. Advise please.
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ford38v8
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-- 07-05-2011 @ 6:47 PM
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John, keep track of the long nut with the zerk fitting. It's not particularly useful until you need it for the Concourse.
Alan
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john38coupe
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-- 07-05-2011 @ 7:24 PM
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It finally came apart. The clamps are riveted to the #5 leaf and the two sides of the clamp were bent in due to tightening of the bolt that held them and once I expanded the gap to the width of the leaf, the entire assembly came apart. Thanks for all the advice as there was significant tension released but my center bolt was long enough to handle the bulk of it. I sat there with safety glasses and gloves and prepared for the worse. I'll do the other one in the morning. I'm saving all parts as this baby will be bone stock and targeting Dearborn, 2013.
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ford38v8
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-- 07-05-2011 @ 7:37 PM
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John, If you go to Dearborn in 2013, you'll be lonesome. The Grand National 2013 will be held at Lake Tahoe, Nevada. This will be the 50th anniversary of the V8 Club, and all indications are that it will be the biggest V8 Meet ever held.
Alan
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john38coupe
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-- 07-05-2011 @ 8:31 PM
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Alan,
Totally aware 2013 is in Lake Tahoe but I've been told the Grand Nationals are dubbed "Dearborn" so I appreciate any correction on the subject. New to the organization and still trying to understand. My car will be 75 in 2013 so I thought it appropriate to give it my best and restore it with Tahoe as the target.
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MG
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-- 07-06-2011 @ 2:03 PM
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Can someone provide preventive maintenance tips here as to the care/lubrication of the leaf springs without taking them apart? I've just been spraying mine with stuff like WD40 anytime I crawl under the car......
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Stroker
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-- 07-06-2011 @ 3:16 PM
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Really not much you can do, without taking them apart. Spraying a good penetrating lubricant
is good, but I'm not sure WD-40 is the weapon of choice, as it is primarily a water displacing product. If you drive in the rain a lot, the WD-40 will help remove the moisture from the inter-leaf areas, but it provides practically no lubrication, especially under the high pressures that exist between the leaves, especially at the outer ends of the individual leaves, where the most wear ("pocketing") occurs.
Personally, I'd mix up a batch of ATF thinned with acetone or lacquer thinner in a pistol oiler, and apply it to the cracks between the leaves after you have unloaded the springs by jacking up the frame, and letting the wheels hang clear of the ground. This "shade-tree" product is almost as good as Aero-Kroil at penetrating tight spaces, and is of course cheaper by an exponential factor.
If you ever decide to "really" lube your springs, you will need to take them apart and grind (smooth out) the "pockets" formed by the leaf-to-leaf rubbing, and then apply a heavy, high-pressure grease before re-assembling. Supereal has recommended an agricultural product used by farmers here in the Midwest called Slip Plate.
About 40 years ago, I restored a horse drawn "express wagon" for a family member to use in parades. This Studebaker Light Express had transverse leaf springs, hooked at the ends to fore-aft leaf springs, making for a total of 6 leaf springs. All the springs were badly rusted, with pits, etc. After grinding them with a belt grinder, I re-assembled them with a heavy fibered wheel bearing grease, and the springs were still "oozing" grease when he sold it 10 years ago.
On my 38, if I ever take the springs apart, I'd be tempted to use the Delrin or Teflon inter-leaf
spacers unless someone tells me that's no longer the "trick set-up"
This message was edited by Stroker on 7-6-11 @ 3:34 PM
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kubes40
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-- 07-06-2011 @ 4:18 PM
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If you are going for "bone stock" than those bolts in the clamps (leaf 5) are wrong. they should be rivets. Also, be certain the spring leaves are tapered and not squared off. if they are, the entire spring is after market.
This message was edited by kubes40 on 7-6-11 @ 4:19 PM
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kubes40
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-- 07-06-2011 @ 4:21 PM
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Your spring should look like the bottom one in this photo.
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Stroker
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-- 07-06-2011 @ 4:46 PM
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Kube:
I know you mainly are interested, and physically involved in the "wrapped" 40's springs. Do you have any thoughts on our older naked springs?
The center-bolt "zerk" was obviously intended to help with the problem, but of course it didn't. The wrapped casing was also intended to contain lubricants, and keep out contaminants, but of course it didn't do that either.
All cars that used leaf springs in the 50's, 60's 70's etc. did not have spring covers, which I would assume meant that their creators didn't think they'd last very long, or the engineers felt that they didn't do anything. Love to hear your thoughts on this subject.
Dan
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kubes40
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-- 07-06-2011 @ 7:14 PM
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Hi Dan,
I couldn't agree with you more. The covers are pretty worthless other than they do look nice  And, they were stock on all '40 Deluxe models.
That zerk actually did okay IF one used the proper lubricant. Push grease through there just once and you were done. It (the grease) would cake and stop any future delivery of lubricant.
No doubt you are aware the authentic lube was akin to STP oil treatment, a very thick oil more so than grease.
Yep, I'm with you on this... covers? Pretty but in reality NOT a good design.
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john38coupe
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-- 07-06-2011 @ 7:18 PM
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Day 2 - I took the front spring apart this morning and used 2 c-clamps each side of the center bolt, placed a chain around placing the hook end tight over a link and felt safe at that point. I then tapped out the 3 inch center bolt and replaced it with a 7 inch one so I as the spring released itself, the bolt would be able to keep the leaves aligned/secured. I got rid of the chain as that was to prevent mishap while replacing the new center bolt then slowly eased off on the two c-clamps concurrently. It was quite simple and the 7 inch center bolt was the trick. In summary, disassembly of the springs was quite easy but getting them off the car was the most difficult part. My vehicle has 96,000 miles and the springs showed no ware at all. Possibly, they had been replaced years ago???? Speaking of lubrication, any opinion regarding the "Graphite Lube" that MAC'S sells on page 42? I would think that should be a durable lubricant.
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supereal
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-- 07-06-2011 @ 7:26 PM
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The problem with Teflon or other spring liners is that they increase the thickness of the assembled spring requiring the fabrication of new clips. The hollow center bolt with the grease fitting usually only lubed the center of the spring, and made an awful mess. Spraying any oil on the outside didn't do much better. If you have rough riding or noisy springs, only disassembly and thorough cleaning will produce lasting results.
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john38coupe
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-- 07-06-2011 @ 7:29 PM
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Yes, my springs do look like the photo displayed. If I said bolts I misspoke. On the #5 leaf its a button top rivet and the springs are all tapered. I did notice, quite a bit of lubricant between each spring and it looks like each leaf has a slightly visible hollow down the center of each leaf which allows the lubricant to path which was functional by what I saw. My car was driven till 1947, stored till 64 when I purchased it, stored to 2005 when I began disassembly......and it shows 96K. It was a lady owner.
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kubes40
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-- 07-07-2011 @ 1:32 PM
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That sounds like the correct spring. Nacewicz sells a kit that replicates the rivets. Well worth the few bucks!
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john38coupe
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-- 07-07-2011 @ 6:00 PM
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Should I replace the rivets while I have it apart?? The originals look structurly sound.
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ford38v8
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-- 07-07-2011 @ 6:38 PM
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John, the zerk and the depression along the length of the leaves was not one of Ford's better ideas. Lubricant pushed through the zerk will travel only as far as the closest exit and no further, leaving the extremities of the leaves dry.
After cleanup and removal of burrs, use Fifth Wheel Grease from Castrol. This stuff is not a thin lubricant film, it's a thick waterproof ultra sticky stuff, specifically purpose formulated. Lather it on each leaf at assembly, and wipe off the excess later. You'll never have to lube your springs again.
Alan
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kubes40
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-- 07-07-2011 @ 6:59 PM
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Alan has offered great advice about the grease type. If you can reassemble the spring with the old rivets, go for it.
I always like to use NOS springs to restore the correct ride height and handling characteristics. Even with NOS, I powder coat each leaf.
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