| dschwartz | -- 07-01-2011 @ 12:01 PM |
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Beware of H&H Flatheads. I Dan Schwartz bought from Jody Martin a 59AB block that was repaired and machine by H&H Flatheads of La Crescenta, Ca. The motor has been used for about two thousands miles with the results of: 1. Eight sleeves that were installed and bored and honed were done incorrect which has resulted in heavy blow by and excessive oil use. The sleeves have moved down in the block two thousands of an inch. The metal in sleeve no 2 cylinder has failed with small patched of voids in the cylinder walls. Water is leaking into cylinders 1 and 2. 2. The sealer paint that was used was done wrong which resulted in the paint flaking and got into the oil passages. H&H will not stand behind there work and refuses to compensate me for my loses.
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| MG | -- 07-01-2011 @ 12:31 PM |
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It's obvious you have the engine apart again. Was it a 'short-block' from H&H? Did your machinist contact H&H about the problems? I would like to hear H&H's explanation.....
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| dschwartz | -- 07-01-2011 @ 12:45 PM |
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Thank you for your reply It was just the block with the machine work done. I had problem with the start up of the motor with blow by and excessive oil use. I contacted H&H and they said take apart the motor and bring it back and they would fix the problem. I pulled the heads at 2 thousands miles and found Sleeves have move down in block and the metal in sleeve 2 has failed. I have tried to contack H&H and no response.
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| MG | -- 07-01-2011 @ 1:10 PM |
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Copy and paste this thread to an email and send it to H&H...
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| Bill Wright | -- 07-01-2011 @ 2:48 PM |
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I've seen a couple of the H&H Model'A' rebuilds have to be redone by other flathead builders. I think thier policy is "Warranty Extends no farther than the Sidewalk". Don't Believe Everything You Think! Bill Wright
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| ford38v8 | -- 07-01-2011 @ 6:54 PM |
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I cannot emphasize this advise enough: Post only that comment that can be proven. Nobody wants to be compelled to defend a defamatory comment in court. That said, I'll be very interested in the outcome of this problem. Our Regional Group, RG1, maintains a Resource Page on it's website. We are picky in who gets on the list and who stays on the list. http://www.goldengatev8.org/resources.htm H&H is currently on our website, so yes, I am interested in the outcome, as it is I who maintains the list. I do acknowledge that there are two sides to every story, and have emailed my good wishes to H&H in hope of a response and an early resolve. Alan
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| JM | -- 07-01-2011 @ 7:37 PM |
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FYI...dschwartz made a similar post on the Fordbarn. H&H Flatheads has responded there. JM
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| ford flathead | -- 07-01-2011 @ 8:58 PM |
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Like I and many others have said on the Ford Barn this guy bought the engine from someone else not me directly and is leaving out most of the story. This is a machined block done over 5 years ago. Since he is not telling the full story it is hard to believe any of it. He cracked the deck of the block from over torquing which will also cause sleeves to pull and distort. I stand behind my engines even past the 1 year 12,000 mile warranty but when it has changed hands from the original purchaser and over 5 years old it is not even close. I assure you I always do my best or I would not be in the position I am in, with thousands of engines out there running. If you have any questions I can be reached at 818-248-2371 8am-4pm M-F as always. Thanks Mike Herman H&H Flatheads
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| ford38v8 | -- 07-01-2011 @ 9:43 PM |
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I've now registered on the Fordbarn for the first time. I read the exchange there, and am happy to report that my Club will continue to display the H&H link on our website. Mr Schwartz deserves all our best wishes also, as I doubt if there is any one of us who hasn't at one time or another found ourselves in such a predicament as he. Alan
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| supereal | -- 07-02-2011 @ 11:03 AM |
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I sympathize with Mr. Herman. Our machine shop has turned out engines for years, and all customers receive a written warranty setting out who is responsible for what. Unless a customer is an experienced mechanic, known by us to be so, only fully assembled engines are produced. This includes a full crankcase, as oil can be forgotten in the haste to run the engine. As rebuilding costs soar, we understand that a customer expects a job to match, but no shop is an insurance company covering improper installation and/or abuse.
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| trjford8 | -- 07-03-2011 @ 8:18 AM |
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The problem here is Mr. Schwartz bought the motor on the secondary market and not directly from H and H. The seller said it was an H and H motor, but who knows if it was or not. Did the seller have paperwork on the block? Even if he did have paperwork it could have been from another motor or even copied from another invoice. It's always taking a chance when you buy on the secondary market and not from the original supplier. We've all bought stuff at swap meets that was allegedly purchased new, but not used by the seller for one reason or another. Those good deals can easily "go south" once you get the item home and find it doesn't fit or work due to some unseen previous damage. You have no recourse, so you just "bite the bullet' and move on. I honestly don't see that H and H has any responsibility here on this motor. This is no different that buying an item from a company and when it is shipped it is damaged in shipping. You don't deal with the original supplier, you deal with the shipper who is responsible for the damage and replacement. The V-8 Club has always had a policy to not get involved in any disputes between club members and suppliers of parts or goods who advertise in the V-8 Times. That policy should also extend to regional groups. Caveat Emptor! This message was edited by trjford8 on 7-3-11 @ 8:39 AM
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| dschwartz | -- 07-05-2011 @ 4:57 PM |
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Thank you EFV-8 club for letting me post my problem on the forum and thank you for taking time to respond to my problem. I learned a very expensive, and very frustrating experience when I purchased the 59AB block on Fordbarn.com. I completely trusted the machine work that had been done on the block that resulted in total disaster. I am going forward, end of story.
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| trjford8 | -- 07-05-2011 @ 6:40 PM |
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I suspect that most everyone on this site(including me) have had an experience like yours. Probably the only difference is the cost of the experience. Some cost more and some cost less.You have the right idea. Move forward and chalk it up to another lesson in life. You are still among V-8 friends. This message was edited by trjford8 on 7-5-11 @ 6:42 PM
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| 35gal | -- 07-05-2011 @ 7:47 PM |
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Sleeve has moved .002 of an inch. How do you measure that.
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| dschwartz | -- 07-05-2011 @ 8:03 PM |
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Thank you so much for the kind words
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| supereal | -- 07-06-2011 @ 8:45 AM |
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Any movement of a sleeve indicates faulty installation. Many sleeves were installed due to cracked cylinders. If they get loose, coolant will enter the oil pan, and bearing destruction will follow. We had an engine in our shop last year that had a small leak at the bottom edge of one cylinder, and it ruined the rod bearings. The owner said he found a shop that claimed they could fix it when we turned it down. The engine had been frozen at some time, and whomever sleeved it missed that the end of the crack extended below the cylinder bore.
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