| parrish | -- 07-01-2011 @ 8:04 AM |
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On an origianl 32, roughly what is the market value differential of a model B versus the V8? And how difficult would the V8 swap be? Different front cross member needed? I realize that the Model B is just fine as is, just wondering and educating myself...Thanks! This message was edited by parrish on 7-1-11 @ 8:12 AM
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| deluxe40 | -- 07-01-2011 @ 10:22 AM |
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In the very wild guess department, I would say that an original '32 V8 might be worth 30 to 50 percent more than a Model B in the same body style and condition. Mechanically, the change can be made without extreme difficulty and has been done many times. Besides the engine, transmission and radiator, there are differences in the firewall, fuel line and linkage, hub caps, dash controls and emblems, to name a few. The difficulties are: 1) the frame/VIN numbers are different, with the V8 starting with "18" and the Model B with "B". So the car will never be an original V8. 2) finding a usable '32 V8 engine is quite difficult with usable cores in the $5K range (several years ago - now, who knows?). Bottom line, in my opinion, is that it is not worth doing. An original Model B is as rare and interesting as a Model 18 (V8) these days and both are more interesting than a mixture of parts. Plus, it's a lot of work and you still don't wind up with a car that you can drive on modern city freeways easily and safely.
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| supereal | -- 07-01-2011 @ 10:33 AM |
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If you look at a good price guide, it appears that, on average. the 4 cylinder model is about 10% less valuable than the V8 counterpart. You didn't mention the model of your car, or I missed it, and the disparity varies as the rarety rises. That said, it is doubtful that conversion to an eight cylinder would be done for the difference, even with a correct '32 V8. There are two prospective markets: to a buyer who knows that your car is valuable "as is", and a rodder, who wouldn't care about the engine or running gear.
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| 37RAGTOPMAN | -- 07-01-2011 @ 10:51 AM |
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I have driven original B Motors in a MODEL A, They run great, better up hills then most V8'S have more torque, a GOOD RUNNING B or C engine with counter weighted cranshaft has no problem on the open road, what I find in the 32"s is the lack of room, compared to 33 and up cars, A friend of mine had a 32 ROADSTER, and it to me was cramped, and I am only 5'10 tall installing a flathead V8 is not that hard but it all depends how much you want to spend,just like anthing else in life, if it is a running car leave it alone and enjoy it as is, if it is a basket case it might be worth doing the way you want,BUT DO NOT PLAN ON MAKING ANY MONEY ON IT, What body style are we talking about ?? has a lot to do with it, my 3 cents 37RAGTOPMAN, SEE YOU ALL IN SARATOGA,!!!
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| ford38v8 | -- 07-01-2011 @ 11:09 AM |
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Parrish, I agree with deluxe40 on value, if we're talking about two identically correct original cars. Super and I have long enjoyed our disagreement regarding the Value Guides. The '32 V8 block today is almost extinct, whereas the B block is much more available. That said though, the drivability of the Model B is greater than the V8, as remember, the 4banger had evolved, while the V8 was barely more than a prototype engine, actually having fewer horsepower than the B. Alan
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| CharlieStephens | -- 07-01-2011 @ 12:47 PM |
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Deluxe40, Other than the bolt on engine snubber and a few holes that are not used depending upon he engine (they are included on all firewalls) what is the difference in the firewall? Also you need to include the anti chatter rods (engine stabilizer rods), engine splash pans, and throttle linkage. The firewall pad will have holes to install the engine snubber bolts which I assume (?) would not be punched on a V8 firewall pad. A good approach as the value impact might be to pick up a copy of "The Old Cars Price Guide" and compare the body style/condition you have with a 4 and an 8. I remember checking this question years ago and the V8 engine would increase the value of my roadster by $4000. I figured it would cost $5000 to make the change. Charlie Stephens This message was edited by CharlieStephens on 7-1-11 @ 1:11 PM
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| deluxe40 | -- 07-01-2011 @ 6:19 PM |
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Charlie, On the firewall, I was thinking of the B snubber and the bolt that holds it on. In the old days that was always a giveaway on a conversion. You are right, I forgot the chatter rods and the splash pans. I checked www.nadaguides.com just now and they discount '32 values by 20% for the B version. They give low, medium and high values. For a coupe (no difference between 3W and 5W!) they say 17K, 25K & 36K; for a roadster, 26K, 42K & 57K. I think they are low for high end cars. I know of a nice original roadster for sale. It would probably not be a Dearborn at meets I've judged in the past 20 years, but the owner wants $85K. Dearborn cars approaching 1000 points are rumored to sell for well over $100K.
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| parrish | -- 07-01-2011 @ 7:31 PM |
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The model is a standard coupe (5W) and I am not the current owner, but it might become available. It is all original and 95% complete. Engine does not turn which prompted my question of engine replacement options. My 2009 Old Cars guide shows a non-running car as a '5' which lists a 32 B at $7,200. That seems quite low. Owner is comtemplating 30K which seems quite high. My former boss, Tom Monaghan always said he wanted to die broke. This car might be his calling! Thanks for all the input.
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| 35ford | -- 07-02-2011 @ 7:35 AM |
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I have done the change over and the list of changes required - somewhere. Please advise if you would like a copy sent to you. I think there are about 18 tiems. 35ford
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| parrish | -- 07-02-2011 @ 8:42 AM |
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Yes, please. I tried a PM, but you have it disabled... Thanks!
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| supereal | -- 07-02-2011 @ 10:39 AM |
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When I consider buying a car, it must have two important things: a valid title, and be in running condition, or at least turn over and start. My longtime friend, Alan, and I have different views on price guides. My post was to compare the "spread" of values between models, rather than actual overall price. That is determined by an "arm's length" transaction between buyer and seller. '32 Fords have always been popular. I once owned a coupe, myself. I think it is safe to say that such a car would have to be a museum piece to command thirty grand.
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| 35ford | -- 07-02-2011 @ 12:56 PM |
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Parrish, SORRY - I was not aware of the pm problem and will try to correct it. If I had your e-mail info I would respond other wise I need to wait to find out how to change the pm setting.
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| 3w2 | -- 07-02-2011 @ 5:25 PM |
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Gentlemen: With the exception of a handful of super-early '32 firewalls, at any point in time in '32 production there was only one firewall used with both fours and eights. In other words, the four holes for mounting the B engine snubber exist on 99.9% of the firewalls of cars/commercial vehicles/trucks originally equipped with V-8 engines (as well as the hole for the cable for the starter hand control and that for the B ignition wiring harness). It is only the firewall insulator that was unique to the engine application, not the firewall. Dave Rehor P.S. I believe that it has become something of a challange to find a decent '32 standard coupe, four or V-8, for much less than $30K.
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| parrish | -- 07-02-2011 @ 8:22 PM |
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35Ford: easy...just login and click on the preferences tab and then enable PM
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| 35ford | -- 07-03-2011 @ 3:54 AM |
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parriwsh, Thanks for the help. Done.
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| deluxe40 | -- 07-03-2011 @ 12:31 PM |
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I stand corrected on the firewall and the holes for the B snubber. My own car (see pic) has a few holes that I never identified and they must be for the snubber bracket. Maybe I remember a B->V8 conversion with the imprint of the bracket still visible on the firewall (?). In any case, the major values of this forum include connections to professional mechanics with many years of Ford experience, to those who literally write the books on Ford restoration and to those who just know more about Fords than I do. Thanks for the opportunity to keep learning about the cars I enjoy.
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| 3w2 | -- 07-03-2011 @ 2:32 PM |
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deluxe40, The unused hole in your photo is for a four-cylinder accelerator cross shaft, which like the other four-only holes mentioned above is normally on all '32 left-hand drive firewalls. (While there are many holes in common between LHD and RHD firewalls, there are some some differences, but that's another topic.) Dave
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| deluxe40 | -- 07-03-2011 @ 5:05 PM |
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Dave, Thanks for the info on the B cross shaft hole. Now, however, I am puzzled because I can't find any holes on my car that look like they would be for a snubber. Having just re-read pages 11-3,4,5 in your excellent book, I'm thinking my Dash (firewall) might not have had the holes. My car is serial # 18-18669, which I figure might make it an early May version. Here's another photo of that area. Thanks, Glenn
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| deluxe40 | -- 07-03-2011 @ 5:10 PM |
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Second try on attaching the picture of my Dash. There must be a think-time limit that I exceeded.
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| deluxe40 | -- 07-03-2011 @ 5:13 PM |
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Not to be deterred by a recalcitrant computer, here's another try:
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| deluxe40 | -- 07-03-2011 @ 5:19 PM |
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Well, signing off and on didn't help, so here's another copy of the picture - large version this time. SUCCESS! Click this one. This message was edited by deluxe40 on 7-3-11 @ 6:18 PM
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| 3w2 | -- 07-03-2011 @ 9:13 PM |
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How about stepping back some and trying a shot of as much of the firewall as possible, preferably taken from the left side? Thanks.
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| deluxe40 | -- 07-04-2011 @ 10:56 AM |
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A wider angle shot is attached. Here are my observations on the dash: 1. There are indents in the edges for the hood hinges. 2. It has the recess for the vacuum canister (behind the overflow bottle). 3. It does not have the short stiffening bead in the upper left corner. 4. It has cutouts on the right side bottom edge for RHD pedals. 5. The cowl drain is 1 5/8" down from upper lip. 6. It does not have holes for the B snubber. I don't think it ever did because I don't recall seeing any evidence on the back side when I installed the firewall pad (in 1988). This message was edited by deluxe40 on 7-4-11 @ 11:01 AM
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| deluxe40 | -- 07-04-2011 @ 11:24 AM |
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Note to parrish on original topic of converting a Model B to a V8: My car is obviously not stock. It has a '48 engine, '39 trans, 3.54 gear, hydraulic brakes and 16" wheels. It is quite reliable and I have driven it every month since I finished it some 12 years ago. I have also driven it on the L.A. freeways (exciting) and up and down the CA coast. It will keep up with trucks in the slow lane (and stop when they do). So, if you want to build a reliable driver to take on tours and show in the Touring class, this might be the way to go. It really is great fun!
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| 3w2 | -- 07-04-2011 @ 12:16 PM |
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Thanks for the photos. Super-looking phaeton. Your firewall is one of those very early examples mentioned above and shown on page 11-3 of the Club's '32 Ford book without the snubber holes. The one shown in the book is from a very early North American-built RHD phaeton. Like yours, it has the clearance cutouts for the pedals and steering column on both sides of the lower edge. While it may well be a function of the angle of the photo of your car, the spacing of the outside door handles suggests that its body was built in Australia, which would mean that it was also originally RHD. Either way, the firewall is a very early one.
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| 35ford | -- 07-06-2011 @ 6:19 AM |
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Parrish, I will be at the Eastern National meet and will take copies there. I will also try to have a friend send it to you. k
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| deluxe40 | -- 07-06-2011 @ 11:01 AM |
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Good catch on the door handles. The Phaeton body was shipped from Australia around 1970 and installed on the frame from a Tudor. The body was one of about six that were imported by members of the Early Times Car Club in Long Beach, CA. The Tudor had a low serial number, so the dash/firewall could have come from either car.
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| parrish | -- 07-06-2011 @ 11:20 AM |
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35ford: I received the list in email...thanks a million!
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| supereal | -- 07-06-2011 @ 2:59 PM |
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I understand, now, why the street rodder guys opt for the fiberglass '32 body. Years ago, I bought a very nice '32 coupe with "artillery" wheels. We channelled it, and tossed the fenders. If I had a time machine, and knew that 30 grand was the "normal" price for a '32 coupe, you can bet I'd have been more careful! I wish that was the only mistake I made in the last almost 80 years!
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