| MG | -- 06-16-2011 @ 4:59 PM |
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.......why the fordbarn.com - Early V8 (1932-53) web site seems (is) more attractive to those with these Flathead Fords than this site? One would think that the opposite should be true. I don't understand this, but I suggest that it may have something to do with the "purist" mentality here. Mind you, I have nothing against the "purist's" except for their lack of fexibility with respect to even minor modifications to our old flatheads. Any suggestions as to how to turn this website around? It would be certainly more enjoyable to visit here each day with more input from others in our hobby. It should be the goal of this site to make this site the first 'click' for those who are addicted to Flathead Fords!
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| oldford2 | -- 06-16-2011 @ 6:04 PM |
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I visit both sites daily and although I am an EFV8 member and enjoy the club, I cannot understand why the webmaster cannot figure out "cookies". Every time I want to reply to a post I have to sign in, then it sends me back to the forums where I have to find out where I was last. So, I don't reply on a lot of posts where I might have some helpful info for the poster. Am I doing something wrong?? Do all you folks have to sign in everytime?? John
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| 1934 Ford | -- 06-16-2011 @ 7:00 PM |
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I too have to sign in everytime, unlike other sites who remember me. I guess it's for safety of the site and liability problems with copywrites and stuff. What bugs me is that if I want to look back at previous reply's during my reply, I have to start over again! All is lost. I still like the forum but have fewer posts because I don't want to type it all again. What am I doing wrong?
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| trjford8 | -- 06-16-2011 @ 8:07 PM |
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MG, I agree that the site is not quite as easy to use as Fordbarn, but there are some reasons why it is not as user friendly.I think you should know that the site is run by volunteers and not professional website people. It's a thankless job and often it can be a pain in the rear keeping it running. The reason for the "sign in" issue is it cuts down on spam problems. Since the site is run by volunteers they don't spend 24/7 watching for "spammers". Spammers usually don't use sites where they have to sign in. As far as the issue with questions about non-stock flatheads all you have to do is ask the question. Many of us here have non stock cars. We may not always know the answer, so sometimes we don't respond. We don't want to give out wrong information. I will say that I have noticed an increase in questions/ answers in the last few months. I see the same questions posted on both sites and supect the posters are looking to see who answers first. Personally I visit both sites and try to answer questions, if I have the answer. The Fordbarn has a little more "chit-chat" and some like that type of forum rather than a straight question/ answer forum. I think both sites are good for each other.
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| supereal | -- 06-16-2011 @ 8:27 PM |
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I've never seen this site as mostly purists. I'm not one, although I understand those who are. Most of my posts are intended to assist those who are not mechanics, but want to participate in the repair of their vehicles. If all work was to be done by others, the hobby would wither and disappear. Granted, some jobs are beyond the skills of the inexperienced, but many are not. Knowing the difference is important to being able to have a reliable and enjoyable car to really use. I yield to no one in admiration of nearly perfect cars, but the Club and the Forum is, and has to be available to the broad base of all who own, or want to own, a great old Ford!
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| JM | -- 06-16-2011 @ 8:51 PM |
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I read and post on the FordBarn, the CevyBarn (Non Chevy section) and here. I prefer the FordBarn for some of the same reasons already mentioned, plus I prefer their format and/or overall website structure over this website. I can usually get answers to any type of questions that I post there much faster and more complete then I can get here. It seems like most of the time you have the same few responders answering ~ 90% of the questions. Now don't get me wrong, those few responders are very knowledgeable about these early Ford V8's and give great advice, but I prefer hearing from a larger cross section of folks, with more varying interests in this hobby, to get multiple opinions on my questions. This website is a lot better than it was in the past but it will probably never be as diversified as the existing Fordbarn. JMO oldford2, I have the same problem with having to log in every time I want to respond. Then by the time I get back to the thread where I want to post something, I'm so frustrated that I either forgot what I wanted to say or I just don't bother to respond. MG, I remember you were once a regular poster on the old FordBarn but I have yet to see you post on the new FordBarn. I sent you a pm about this and you finally responded with a silly answer saying...."the Fordbarn is too effeminate for me"......I still wonder what the real reason is/was?? I personally think you miss posting on Fordbarn and now wish this website was more like the Fordbarn. JMO JM
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| MG | -- 06-16-2011 @ 9:10 PM |
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trjford8, You missed the entire point of my post. I said nothing about this site's ease of use or lack thereof. The crux of my post was to find out reasons why this website is not as attractive as fordbarn.com. - what are they doing right, what is this site doing wrong. JM, I don't miss posting on the Fordbarn for the reason I gave. However, I do wish this site were as popular as the Ford Barn site. Just too few posters here - there's got to be a reason for this.
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| supereal | -- 06-17-2011 @ 9:41 AM |
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Posting here is open to all who are registered to do so. Most of the initial posts are posed as questions. Some of us know the answers from experience, and try to furnish the help in as expedient way as possible because often the question is posted in the midst of job. If too frequent posting is a problem, i'd be glad to reduce my particpation if it is harming the site.
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| oldford2 | -- 06-17-2011 @ 10:25 AM |
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SUPEREAL Bob, Your frequent posts are always informative and welcome. Keep up the good work and don't let some of the nit pickers bother you. John
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| MG | -- 06-17-2011 @ 10:31 AM |
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oldford2, Who's "nit picking" ? How is supereal's post even related to the topic of this thread??
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| JM | -- 06-17-2011 @ 10:46 AM |
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Super, I hope you didn't take my post the wrong way. You do a wonderful job of answering questions here. Sometimes if it were not for your response there would be no answer at all to some of these posts. I just wish more folks would respond to the questions that get asked here. Since there is always more than one way to skin the cat, I enjoy reading various opinions on how to do things. That usually gives me more options. Please continue to do the great work you have always done here in the past. JM
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| supereal | -- 06-17-2011 @ 12:04 PM |
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Thank you for your kind words. I am certainly not the only one who grew up with these cars. Many of us have reached those "golden years", and if we can impart any info and tips, it is our pleasure (if we can still remember them). We have reached an age of overwhelming complexity in our modern vehicles. Thankfully, our old cars still give us a chance to have some "hands on" pleasure. I often marvel at how much more skill my "kids", at 53 and 56, have in facing the day to day variety of work presented to us. When owners can no longer participate in the repair and maintenance of their vehicles, we lose the acomplishment we often found under the "shade tree", and the hobby is in danger.
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| ford38v8 | -- 06-17-2011 @ 1:39 PM |
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As to ease of use, I keep the "Today's Active Discussions" page bookmarked on my toolbar. When I decide to reply to a thread, I hit the reply, that reminds me to sign in, then I simply hit the back button to return to the thread and make my reply. While you are typing your reply, you can always scroll below to review the thread as you type. After my reply, I go to the bookmark to return to the active page. This site does a good job in discouraging spammers in that it requires signing in each time. I appreciate the reasoning there, and the responsible posters we have here. I don't appreciate the name calling and bad mouthing of each other that I found on the Fordbarn. I haven't been on that site for quite a while, so if they've managed to clean up their act, I'll eat my words. Yes, I'm a purist, and will advise as to what is or isn't correct, and hope that this advice is taken as intended, insofar as I would hate to advise someone to modify or repair only to find out later that in order to be competitive on the Concourse, he would have to change back again. I have made, and do advise in modifications that do not detract from originality as judged on the Concourse, such as: Brake floaters for cable brakes, soldered bullet connections, tin foil inside light buckets, high volume water pumps and other internal engine mods, concealed electric fuel pumps and fuel filters, Optima batteries concealed inside gutted Ford script batteries, era aesthetic turn signals, seat belts, '39-'48 transmission synchro for earlier transmissions, and the list goes on... I have no knowledge of hot rodding, as many of us here are also lacking in, but I know that several of our more knowledgeable posters are, and do respond to those questions. This is an area in which the Fordbarn is better at, and I for one am glad of that difference, which makes it easier for posters to get the type of answer requested. Our webmaster does a tremendous job, unpaid, volunteering. It took a lot of work to set up, and a lot of work to keep up. A big hand here for John & Margaret Connelly! John is a National Board Member, and is also the go-to guy on all things Columbia, for those who need parts or repair. A dedicated V8er there! John is pictured in the attached photo. Alan
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| oldford2 | -- 06-17-2011 @ 2:06 PM |
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Aha! Just hit the back button after signing in to return to the post. Thanks for the tip Alan. John
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| MG | -- 06-17-2011 @ 3:23 PM |
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No one is criticizing the webmaster of this site or others who volunteer their time to keep this site going. What I'm trying to get across here is that this club, with "membership of over 9,000 and 125 Regional Groups worldwide", should be able to attract a heck of a lot more contributors/posters to this site than website's like the Ford Barn. Has anyone even considered how to attract more visitors to this site - visitors who will not hesitate to contribute their thoughts/knowledge? Visitors who may want to come here but hesitate for some reason? Diversity does apply here. Or, is it that this site has no incentive/desire to evolve, to grow? BTW - I think the format of this site is easy to use - better than Ford Barn. Also, Ford Barn does have a separate site for the hot rod Ford flathead guys as opposed to the guys who prefer mostly stock/original flathead cars - two site's for the 1932 thru 1953 model years.
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| trjford8 | -- 06-17-2011 @ 8:21 PM |
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MG, I'm not sure how to attract more visitors. We've(the club) changed the site approximately four times since it's inception to attract more users. They also tried to make it more user friendly. I'm probably going to go out on a limb here, but I think the problem is the image (perception) of the V-8 Club. There are many flathead owners out there who are not club members. When you ask them why they don't join, the answer is usually the same. They consider the club to be specifically for bone stock cars and they have the impression they would not be welcome if they showed up to a function with a car the was not "box stock". I promote the club at the Portland swap meet and hand out copies of the V-8 Times. I'm amazed at the number of people who own a flathead ,that either do not know of the club, or avoid the club for the reasons I have stated above. I believe that the perception of the club spills over to the website and that is why we don't get as many visitors. I believe there is the feeling if they ask a question on this site about a car with modifications they will get "set upon" by those who like restored cars. I realize this is just my opinion based on coversations at swap meets etc, but I do think it part of the participation(lack of) issue. JMHO
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| MG | -- 06-17-2011 @ 8:53 PM |
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Is there a count as to how many of the 9000+ members of the EFV8 Club are registered to post on this site? Are the club's own members avoiding to post here?
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| JM | -- 06-17-2011 @ 9:25 PM |
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Tom, You said in your last post, "I believe there is the feeling if they ask a question on this site about a car with modifications they will get "set upon" by those who like restored cars"....Or, on the other hand, they may not get any responses at all, like the post titled "transmission change". I waited a day to see what kind of response he would get and finally posted a reply sending him to other websites where he is more likely to get an answer to his question. I personally wish I knew how to answer his question but I don't. Maybe others who post here could have given him an answer but didn't. Again, this is just my opinion. JM
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| JM | -- 06-17-2011 @ 9:32 PM |
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MG, with the average age of the EFV8C/A membership somewhere around 75 or higher, I believe many of those 9000 members may not even use computers. Just a thought. JM
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| ford38v8 | -- 06-18-2011 @ 12:30 AM |
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I think Tom is right on the money. I've had the same experience as he described, and it's hard to convince them that they are welcome also. The truth is, I believe, over half of our National Board Members including Presidents and paid Staff, over the past 20 years has owned modified Ford products during their terms of office. We are not exclusively stock Ford people, but I think that to attract more guys by abandoning our mission statement would definitely be a step in the wrong direction. We're fine with our numbers, we have no need to grow larger, our membership has been steady over many years, and all indications are that it will remain so. Alan
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| trjford8 | -- 06-18-2011 @ 8:43 AM |
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JM, I think you have added another factor to the lack of participation. I'm sure many members, due to age, do not have computers. Unfortunately those same members have a ton of knowledge that cannot be imparted via the computer. It's like having a library where they don't loan books. Sometime back the club did a random survey and one of the questons concerned computer ownership. If I recall correctly less than 50% of those surveyed owned a computer. The Fordbarn also has a social network tied into the website. They organize Fordbarn tours or Fordbarn "gatherings" at certain events, etc. I'm sure this adds to the popularity of the site. JM you are also right about the timeliness of answering a question. If the poster does not get an answer in a timely manner they move on to where they will get a quicker response. If they get a response at Fordbarn they tend to stay with that site for future questions. Al, I agree that we should not change the mission of the club. We do need to change the "image" of the club. If we present an "elitist" attitude towards those with non-stock cars we will never maintain our membership. I see young guys with modified flatheads, cars with updated brakes/dropped axles, and tuck and roll upholstery.These same young guys also like stock cars just because they are flathead powered.We can never let these young guys feel like they are not welcome because we are an "elite" group. They are our future and could be the next person who re-restores an old restoration. All it takes is a couple of negative exepierences for a young person to move on from this web site, or the the club, and go somehwere where they feel accepted. The mission is established, the image can be changed by making people feel welcome. JMHO This message was edited by trjford8 on 6-18-11 @ 8:44 AM
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| supereal | -- 06-18-2011 @ 11:04 AM |
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Many of us are reluctant to answer questions about modifying running gear from stock configuration due to the possibility of creating an unsafe condition. At our shop, we get requests to install extreme lift kits, brake conversions, and other popular modifications. As a matter of policy, we don't take these on because if death or injury results, we could be wiped out financially. In short, the risk outweighs the reward. That is truth in today's litigious world.
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| 51f1 | -- 06-18-2011 @ 1:29 PM |
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I don't understand the log-in problem. Every time I visit the site, the first thing I do is log-in. My name and password are kept by my computer, and all I have to do is click on the arrow. And, no, I don't want my cars to be modified (I have felt that way since I was a teenager, over 50 years), except for safety reasons, i.e., turn signals and seat belts. I always felt like the guys that designed them knew what they were doing, and, now, I feel like history is being destroyed when an old car is modified. It's our responsibility to preserve history, not destroy it. A lot of the modifications are simply unnecessary, such as converting to 12 volts (try maintaining your 6-volt system), but it's your car and you can do what you want with it. Richard
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| TomO | -- 06-20-2011 @ 3:03 PM |
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Like Richard, I log in when I reach the site. Some questions take more time to answer correctly than others. Some questions are not answered the same day because the post does not include enough information, others take quite a bit of research, others are not answered because they are out of the experience range of the people on this forum. Having a lot of answers to a question is not always a good thing. Too many answers turn trouble shooting into an Easter egg hunt where most of the eggs are spoiled. I know a lot of people would like someone to give them the magic answer of which part is going to fix their problem, but taking the time to perform the proper tests and analyzing the results will lead to a less costly and more sure fix. I don't know if having a lot of action on a technical forum is a good thing or a bad thing. I do know that most questions on this forum get good answers and that is the important thing in my opinion. I do visit the Ford Barn occasionally and the new owners have made it into a much better forum than it was in the past. They seem to do a good job of policing spam and deleting replies that are not appropriate on a forum that is supposed to help. Tom
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| jim5618 | -- 06-21-2011 @ 6:25 AM |
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As a new participant in the hobby and new to all of the sites I can give you feedback from my point of view. I started on AACA, then to here (where I joined the club) then to Fordbarn. Frankly the issue for me is that there is more activity over there. I do belive, as is stated, most of the activity is hot rodding. I also think there is a broader base that will cross populate the forums. Model A guys who read and post on the 32 to 50 and so on. I think if all the members make more of an effort to post here, we can drive the volume up.
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| trjford8 | -- 06-21-2011 @ 3:36 PM |
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Jim, I think you are right about being more proactive on posting. What I do know is there are a lot of V-8 Club members who post on Fordbarn that don't post here. Some of them left this forum when the club made changes to this site. That is when we required a log- in to cut down on spam. At that time there was no log-in to Fordbarn and it was evident by the comments that they did not like the log-in process. Now that there is a log-in on Fordbarn there were some people that complained about the process over there. Interestingly those that didn't like a log-in on Fordbarn somehow adapted and stayed there. Again I don't have any pat answers to why we have a lack of posters here on the forum, but I do know the Fordbarn has a lot of social type activities. Those activities involve tours, picnics, etc. I suspect that has something to do with the popularity of the site. I'm sure there are other factors . but I think the social aspect plays a pretty big role in the lack of participation.
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| MG | -- 06-21-2011 @ 4:03 PM |
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For those interested, we could evolve this thread into a suggestion exchange as to what you think we could do to make this site more attractive. Maybe things like events you are planning to attend and pictures from those events you have attended. Or, how about RG news and events? How about pictures of those who post here and their shops? How about dedicating one day a week to some good old fashion, GOOD NATURED ball-busting? :o) How about some "It worked for me" threads, etc. etc. etc.? Your turn...... This message was edited by MG on 6-21-11 @ 4:31 PM
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| supereal | -- 06-21-2011 @ 4:49 PM |
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I'm not sure the aim of this site is to promote social activity. I left my RG because all they wanted to do was social stuff. I don't need a club for that. As I understood the club it is to promote and enhance the flathead Ford years.
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| Lou46 | -- 06-21-2011 @ 4:51 PM |
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Okay here goes. I'm a member of the EFV8CA and several regional groups. I also, like JM and others check Fordbarn and the ChevyBarn (non Chevy) forum or the really old Fordbarn. The old Fordbarn is more of a social site with some technical issues thrown in. Many Early Ford V8 folks are also active participants. The new FordBarn is supposed to be for original Ford V8 cars and trucks but it's really about flathead powered cars that are being modernized with wonderful technology like 5 speed transmissions, electronic distributors and disc brakes. Like someone said it's your car have at it and do as you please. This site has some modifications too, electric fuel pumps, hydraulic brakes in vehicles with standard mechanical brakes, etc. fairly mild compared to Fordbarn or H.A.M.B. vehicles. That is not to say that members do not own these vehicles it's just that most feel this is not the place to discuss that type of car. It has been a sticking point for several years as to what the EFV8CA can do to get younger people involved in the hobby and the club. The problem arises when the by-laws and original club objective come into play. "To preserve and authentically maintain vehicles manufactured by the Ford Motor Company for the model years 1932 through 1953 inclusive....." To accomodate owners with other tastes Touring, Touring A, Display and Rouge classes were developed and implemented for national meets. Do you as members want to see a hot rod class at national meets? What limits would you implement? I saw more street rods, Touring and Touring A cars at the 2010 Western National Meet than there were original cars. Aren't there enough venues for modified or non-stock vehicles already? Just my humble and unsolicited opinion. LouB.
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| MG | -- 06-21-2011 @ 5:31 PM |
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Lou, My post above was not meant to address the items in your response. It was about making suggestions to make this site a 'Go To' site, which it ain't. Everything I suggested would naturally be pertinent to basically 'original' flatheads given the purists here. I'd especially like to see unsolicited "It Worked For Me" posts along with the standard Q&A posts here. supereal, I bailed from my local RG for the same reason as you - the wives took over and ran everything - the cars and guys were not involved - the RG meetings/events were just another excuse to gossip and eat! This message was edited by MG on 6-21-11 @ 10:43 PM
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| Lou46 | -- 06-21-2011 @ 6:42 PM |
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MG As you can see I have been a member of the EFV8CA for a few years and I am not a prolific poster. I began with your first post about "purist" and why the "other" sites seemed to be ustilized more. I simply gave my opinion concerning those points. You may have a valid suggestion in the "It worked for me posts" So, go ahead what worked for you? To have an actual section on this website would most likely take some time to develop, especially being a club site and approvals being necessary and all that. If shown it were popular, I'm sure considertion would be given to such a feature. As to no longer being a regional group member, I find there are a things I do not like about the regional groups I belong to, but the good things definitely out weigh the bad. Again, JMHO LouB.
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| MG | -- 06-21-2011 @ 7:04 PM |
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Lou said: "To have an actual section on this website would most likely take some time to develop, especially being a club site and approvals being necessary and all that." You've got to be kidding - "approvals being necessary"??? And, who's asking for a "actual section"? I assume you mean a special/seperate section? Why would this be necessary? Again, your interpretation of my suggestions are wrong and biased to keep the status quo - a bland and sterile website. This message was edited by MG on 6-21-11 @ 7:05 PM
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| Lou46 | -- 06-21-2011 @ 7:42 PM |
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Alas, the crux of why my posts are limited. It seems I have the inability to understand and interpret what people are actually saying. And yes, I misunderstood (again) and actually thought that should the "It worked for me" posts prove popular. A special/seperate section could be developed to assist people. How could I even have thought that? With my latest incorrect interpretation(s), I will now go back to my status quo (just reading and trying to learn from the posts). Keep on V8'ing. LouB.
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| trjford8 | -- 06-21-2011 @ 7:49 PM |
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MG, you bring some valid points. I agree we don't need a specific column for "It Worked for Me". A person could simply post a problem that they had and how they solved it. It's also not a bad idea to post events, such as a tour to a national meet, etc. The only problem I see with those events is you may get more participants than you can handle. I put on one or two tours a year and so far have been lucky that I do not exceed my limits for hotels, banquets, etc. If I happened to get more that I can handle it would put me in the position of saying "no". I really don't want to be in that position. Lou, I understand that the club does not always meet everyone's needs. All members support the mission of the restoration and preservation of the 32-53 cars. The touring and touring A divisions were designed to retain those members who felt they would be banned due to some upgrades on their cars. A lot of us do in fact have street rods and do attend the meets. We also support the mission of the V-8 Club. Not sure if you were aware or not, but many of those with modified cars volunteered their time to help at the western meet. Numerous wives worked the registration table, some worked the concourse tabulation room, and many were on the field to help judge cars on the concourse.Many of us brought raffle prizes to help with meet expenses. I set up a tour and brought 18 cars from California. Almost every person on that tour gave some hours to help with that meet.We support the club any way we can even though we may have modified cars. This club is about people along with the cars. If it was just about cars this club would have serious membership issues. I understand and respect your position , but you have to remember this club is about people who have different ideas and opinions. We all need to stick together to maintain the V-8 Club and possibly maintain our hobby.
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